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sorry for a [\h__\h] do you think you can

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elude us forever carlos

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huh wait you got the wrong guy my name's

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simon

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look look just let me go there's no need

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to kill me

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i haven't seen your face oh yeah no no i

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didn't

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say it the game's over your career as an

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international terrorist has been well

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documented

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oh yeah oh yeah no no no i saw cars

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that's all

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come on i'm not a terrorist

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i'm actually a complete coward if i ever

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saw god oh god oh

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please don't don't don't don't kill me

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yes

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fun days

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arnold schwarzenegger tom arnold bill

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paxton

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yucking it up in true lies about a fun

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covert intelligence operation not at all

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scary

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where the terrorists are really just

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used

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car salesmen oh the good old days

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oh maybe they weren't so good here's

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what was really going on

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well he cut his teeth in vietnam i mean

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doing this very very spooky operation

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called that wandering soul

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he developed these recordings known as

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ghost tape number 10 and

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basically what they would do is they

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would play these uh sort of eerie

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sounds and wailings the idea of this was

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to sort of suggest and to play off the

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what they imagined as being the

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vietnamese belief in wandering

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ghosts and spirits it's very sam harris

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have a sneering thing where it's like oh

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we can manipulate

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these savages beliefs even to bring it

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up to the 80s to the

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to michael quino's very odd performances

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on oprah and the geraldo show when he

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went on to

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you know basically defend the temple of

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set and satanic practices and stuff

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during the height of the so-called

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satanic panic you could almost see a

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parallel between operation wandering

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soul

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and what he was doing there because he

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was going on tv

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in such a provocative way where it's

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like he knew he was going to basically

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trigger

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all the kind of conservative christian

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types that were

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being terrified by what oprah and

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geraldo and all these other people

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were saying about how there's these evil

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cults but then he was also sitting there

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and going like that is actually not true

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i am

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you know i might have devil eyebrows and

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have this like

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you know like very witchy wife and stuff

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and seem very sinister

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but you know actually there's nothing to

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see here it almost like it

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in in the sense of the real goal of the

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recording of wandering soul

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was to get the the vietcong soldiers to

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re to get angry

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and reveal their position and expose

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themselves and

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it was it was all about eliciting a

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psychological reaction

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that was actually not exactly what the

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kind of ostensible goal

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of the operate of the psyop so i got

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this interview coming up with the guys

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from subliminal jihad which is a

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fantastic

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podcast that i discovered and i want you

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to check out as well

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we cover so many topics in this

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interview but one of the focus points

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is this guy michael aquino who is a

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satanist

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pedophile probably murderer of children

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almost for sure

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and a guy who was legitimately

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embraced by our military and

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intelligence organizations i mean he was

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totally

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embedded he was highly highly regarded

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for his knowledge and

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insights for mind control and mind games

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here's an additional clip yeah i think

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that you know for instance you mentioned

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it's working on the devil you know this

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is a huge

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uh flashpoint in our culture a huge

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controversy over uh

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lil nos x's video a common point that

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people made

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of these v the video was that well you

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know look at the ending you know little

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not sex actually

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he's using his sexuality to seduce the

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devil but in the end

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he kills the devil and then he puts the

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devil's horns on himself so really he's

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killing satan so isn't that

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good and it's like well you know if you

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think about what these people like

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michael aquino for instance

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what they really believe like that

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actually matches up perfectly

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with their ideas about their how their

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relationship with these entities work

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you know they of course no one's ever

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gonna sign on to like the christian idea

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of

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a deal with the devil like that people

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will warn you about no one would take

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that deal probably

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you know it's because they think that

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they have a loophole they always have a

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way out you know and oftentimes it's

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because they can ascend themselves

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they can become you know the dark prince

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or you know the god unto themselves

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that's exactly what sethianism teaches

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like which is

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you know there's a vulgar more

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secularized version of that

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in the church of satan and even further

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more secularized version of that and

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the satanic temple where you have the

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idea that they're

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you know you can yourself it's all about

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the the aggrandizement of itself you

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know the ascension of the self

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the godhood of the becoming a god yeah

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exactly they think that they're they're

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not going to be accountable because

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they will you know find a loophole that

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they will become

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said before i'm not

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into staring into the abyss and i don't

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want to do it in this case

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but i do feel like we do need to reach

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as i keep saying in this interview

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terra firma we need to have some kind of

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ground that we stand

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on to at least look out and assess the

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playing field

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welcome to skeptico where we explore

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controversial science and

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spirituality with leading researchers

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thinkers

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and their critics i'm your host alex

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karis and today we welcome

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two very interesting guys creators of a

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remarkable podcast

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called subliminal jihad we have dimitri

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poshlost

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and khalid bin yakib here to join me now

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i had to struggle through those names

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guys did i get

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was that okay yeah yeah yeah you did it

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well right

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because because like i said from here on

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out it's it's dimitri and khalid the

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whole way

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yeah that sounds like it works for me

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so you know i kind of stumbled across

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your really truly remarkable kind of

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off the radar i think for a lot of

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people but let's hope not

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show from the operand report and i was

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kind of blown away and i came over to

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your

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excellent sound it's on soundcloud

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and it's also on apple podcasts

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yeah and uh patreon as well okay yeah

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great so i did i'm on patreon to support

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these guys they're doing some really

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really great work

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so i started digging into the shows and

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you know i'm thinking of this as kind of

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a swap cast kind of thing and that i

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just want to kind of

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introduce this podcast to people and

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then we'll just kind of

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chat about the world kind of thing

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because the shows that these guys do

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two sometimes three hours with dense

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dense

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information i was telling demetri you

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know it's like i love listening to them

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but i'm like they're

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pausing and making audio notes the whole

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way through

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with all the and they're not doing name

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dropping kind of thing they're doing

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like

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deep name connection this idea and that

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idea and so many of the things

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that we talk about on this show so

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great to have you guys here welcome to

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skeptico

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can you start by telling us a little bit

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about

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your background and then the origins of

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this podcast

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yeah sure it's great to be here i'm very

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excited

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and yeah i don't know call it i guess we

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we've known each other for quite some

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time yeah we're old riel friends

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you know which isn't the case with all

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podcasts but yeah we are

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authentic ral friends and we yeah we

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know each other for a while

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and we've both had we've talked about

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doing this for a long time because

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i think as we mentioned on the show you

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know we're both

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we both did like a lot of writing like

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creative writing you know

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collaboratively together like at various

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times and you know we would have long

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uh conversations brainstorming ideas for

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things projects like that and we always

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felt that we would be

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good at the the podcast i mean i feel

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like something that people

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often point out about our show is that i

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have like a very annoying voice and

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dimitri has like a very

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a sonorous like uh malicious sort of

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beautiful one which wasn't something

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that i thought of as being a dynamic of

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the podcast but i just thought that

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since we

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talked like at such length like all the

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time you know it would just be a natural

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fit and we always had an interest in

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you know in the uh called the dimitri

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particularly in conspiracies and that

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type of thing and i've always been

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interested in religion spirituality in

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particular you know esoteric

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forms of that so i felt like we had kind

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of intersection of interests and

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when we were kind of talking about what

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the podcast theme would be that was

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naturally what we gravitated to so yeah

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that's kind of the the short genesis of

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it i don't know if you wanted to add

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anything to that dimitri

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uh well we'll call it khalid one one

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second there because i i totally get

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that and that's super interesting

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what about you know personally you guys

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don't reveal a lot you guys are really

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kind of

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off the radar a little bit i mean

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personally about you know how old are

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you what is your background what did you

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do before this what do you do now

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i mean what are you without revealing

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yeah we're millennials i'm an academic

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yeah i'm in academia and yeah yeah i

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work on like islamic intellectual

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history

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is what my my research is and

284
00:09:18,310 --> 00:09:16,720
yeah yeah as for me i live in los

285
00:09:18,870 --> 00:09:18,320
angeles that's another thing about us

286
00:09:22,150 --> 00:09:18,880
we're

287
00:09:23,670 --> 00:09:22,160
on both coasts so yes right we used to

288
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live in the same place but not for many

289
00:09:27,590 --> 00:09:25,040
years which is kind of why the

290
00:09:29,030 --> 00:09:27,600
the skype and zoom brainstorming

291
00:09:29,829 --> 00:09:29,040
sessions started to begin with but i've

292
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been in la

293
00:09:33,910 --> 00:09:31,680
for like about a decade and i've worked

294
00:09:37,190 --> 00:09:33,920
kind of in and around the film business

295
00:09:38,070 --> 00:09:37,200
and like khalid said i've done uh a

296
00:09:40,949 --> 00:09:38,080
decent amount of

297
00:09:41,910 --> 00:09:40,959
a decent bit of screenwriting kind of in

298
00:09:44,949 --> 00:09:41,920
the periphery

299
00:09:45,750 --> 00:09:44,959
of hollywood and a lot of the scripts

300
00:09:47,829 --> 00:09:45,760
that i

301
00:09:49,110 --> 00:09:47,839
had worked on maybe over the last five

302
00:09:51,030 --> 00:09:49,120
or six years

303
00:09:52,630 --> 00:09:51,040
a lot of them had a very heavy

304
00:09:54,870 --> 00:09:52,640
historical bent or you know they were

305
00:09:56,630 --> 00:09:54,880
either biopics or historical things

306
00:09:58,630 --> 00:09:56,640
so i ended up doing tons of research

307
00:10:01,030 --> 00:09:58,640
into certain topics

308
00:10:02,470 --> 00:10:01,040
that led me down these rabbit holes

309
00:10:04,389 --> 00:10:02,480
where i just kept digging further and

310
00:10:06,710 --> 00:10:04,399
further and further and

311
00:10:08,310 --> 00:10:06,720
then kind of that that's actually where

312
00:10:10,150 --> 00:10:08,320
i think kind of my

313
00:10:11,350 --> 00:10:10,160
interest in quote-unquote conspiracy

314
00:10:13,590 --> 00:10:11,360
culture really

315
00:10:15,030 --> 00:10:13,600
took off and then yeah i know i've

316
00:10:17,750 --> 00:10:15,040
worked as a video editor

317
00:10:18,069 --> 00:10:17,760
and a bunch of other things around you

318
00:10:20,470 --> 00:10:18,079
know

319
00:10:21,509 --> 00:10:20,480
la and like the entertainment business

320
00:10:23,829 --> 00:10:21,519
nothing that you would like

321
00:10:24,710 --> 00:10:23,839
notice if i like shattered it out right

322
00:10:26,150 --> 00:10:24,720
now but

323
00:10:28,310 --> 00:10:26,160
you know just a lot of things here and

324
00:10:29,590 --> 00:10:28,320
there so yeah that's like we do have

325
00:10:31,509 --> 00:10:29,600
kind of like an arts

326
00:10:32,870 --> 00:10:31,519
background to some extent which i think

327
00:10:34,470 --> 00:10:32,880
is like an interesting

328
00:10:36,710 --> 00:10:34,480
angle to take you know we talk a lot

329
00:10:39,430 --> 00:10:36,720
about hollywood and cinema

330
00:10:40,230 --> 00:10:39,440
and you know that kind of are the the

331
00:10:42,710 --> 00:10:40,240
art form

332
00:10:43,750 --> 00:10:42,720
and kind of more contemporary sense

333
00:10:45,590 --> 00:10:43,760
because also

334
00:10:47,829 --> 00:10:45,600
like part of the reason i think besides

335
00:10:49,670 --> 00:10:47,839
the pandemic that finally really pushed

336
00:10:52,870 --> 00:10:49,680
us into starting the podcast was

337
00:10:54,150 --> 00:10:52,880
this feeling that hollywood is less and

338
00:10:55,670 --> 00:10:54,160
less amenable

339
00:10:57,509 --> 00:10:55,680
certainly to the types of projects i had

340
00:10:58,870 --> 00:10:57,519
been working on for five years and you

341
00:11:00,870 --> 00:10:58,880
know in some cases

342
00:11:02,150 --> 00:11:00,880
for example they were critical uh they

343
00:11:03,670 --> 00:11:02,160
had themes in it that were critical of

344
00:11:05,990 --> 00:11:03,680
the united states military

345
00:11:08,069 --> 00:11:06,000
and i found out in a very subtle way

346
00:11:08,389 --> 00:11:08,079
going to dozens and dozens of meetings

347
00:11:10,389 --> 00:11:08,399
and

348
00:11:11,990 --> 00:11:10,399
you know with the producers executives

349
00:11:13,350 --> 00:11:12,000
and stuff and a couple times people

350
00:11:16,069 --> 00:11:13,360
you know kind of told me under their

351
00:11:17,990 --> 00:11:16,079
breath look man you know

352
00:11:19,590 --> 00:11:18,000
anything that has the military that has

353
00:11:20,310 --> 00:11:19,600
anything negative about the military in

354
00:11:22,310 --> 00:11:20,320
it is not

355
00:11:23,670 --> 00:11:22,320
going to get funding from the military

356
00:11:25,590 --> 00:11:23,680
you know you know they give out free

357
00:11:27,990 --> 00:11:25,600
stuff if you write something about them

358
00:11:28,949 --> 00:11:28,000
and if they and but then they get script

359
00:11:30,550 --> 00:11:28,959
approval on it

360
00:11:32,710 --> 00:11:30,560
and so if you write something that they

361
00:11:34,310 --> 00:11:32,720
don't approve of then the budget of your

362
00:11:36,069 --> 00:11:34,320
project just skyrocketed

363
00:11:37,509 --> 00:11:36,079
and therefore most producers are loath

364
00:11:39,350 --> 00:11:37,519
to even kind of get involved and that's

365
00:11:42,710 --> 00:11:39,360
why you basically don't see any

366
00:11:44,069 --> 00:11:42,720
anti-war or empire critical content

367
00:11:45,990 --> 00:11:44,079
coming out of hollywood i think

368
00:11:48,150 --> 00:11:46,000
probably since like the iraq war days

369
00:11:49,990 --> 00:11:48,160
was the last little tiny bird instead

370
00:11:51,190 --> 00:11:50,000
it's all about how brave the cia is and

371
00:11:52,629 --> 00:11:51,200
stuff so

372
00:11:54,470 --> 00:11:52,639
that that's kind of maybe more of my

373
00:11:56,310 --> 00:11:54,480
like personal motivation of being very

374
00:11:56,790 --> 00:11:56,320
frustrated in hollywood and realizing

375
00:11:59,110 --> 00:11:56,800
that

376
00:11:59,990 --> 00:11:59,120
there is so much so many layers of

377
00:12:03,590 --> 00:12:00,000
subtle

378
00:12:05,269 --> 00:12:03,600
kind of massaging and certain doors

379
00:12:05,670 --> 00:12:05,279
allowed to be out you know certain doors

380
00:12:08,949 --> 00:12:05,680
open

381
00:12:10,629 --> 00:12:08,959
other ones closed it's kind of this very

382
00:12:13,829 --> 00:12:10,639
you know you could almost say subliminal

383
00:12:15,509 --> 00:12:13,839
system of of gatekeeping and and like

384
00:12:17,190 --> 00:12:15,519
in a kind of way that you know and i

385
00:12:19,030 --> 00:12:17,200
think both of us you know having done

386
00:12:21,509 --> 00:12:19,040
creative writing like understand that

387
00:12:22,949 --> 00:12:21,519
you know there's ideological content let

388
00:12:24,870 --> 00:12:22,959
me interject something here

389
00:12:26,389 --> 00:12:24,880
and either one of you guys can address

390
00:12:27,590 --> 00:12:26,399
it but directly to you dimitri because i

391
00:12:28,470 --> 00:12:27,600
was just thinking about this the other

392
00:12:29,829 --> 00:12:28,480
day

393
00:12:31,350 --> 00:12:29,839
one of the things i appreciate about you

394
00:12:31,910 --> 00:12:31,360
guys you guys say you're millennials i'm

395
00:12:34,230 --> 00:12:31,920
a little bit

396
00:12:35,430 --> 00:12:34,240
older than that but i appreciate that

397
00:12:37,910 --> 00:12:35,440
you're

398
00:12:39,910 --> 00:12:37,920
not afraid to go back and kind of dig

399
00:12:42,230 --> 00:12:39,920
through some recent history so

400
00:12:43,509 --> 00:12:42,240
you know michael aquino is one of the

401
00:12:46,230 --> 00:12:43,519
first

402
00:12:47,509 --> 00:12:46,240
shows that kind of caught my attention

403
00:12:50,710 --> 00:12:47,519
the kind of

404
00:12:52,870 --> 00:12:50,720
high satanic priest and chaplain in the

405
00:12:53,190 --> 00:12:52,880
united states army has proven pedophile

406
00:12:56,430 --> 00:12:53,200
and

407
00:12:59,670 --> 00:12:56,440
circa

408
00:13:00,949 --> 00:12:59,680
1960 you know and before

409
00:13:02,230 --> 00:13:00,959
as you guys trace and you guys do an

410
00:13:03,110 --> 00:13:02,240
awesome job of tracing that whole

411
00:13:06,790 --> 00:13:03,120
history

412
00:13:09,509 --> 00:13:06,800
but my point is that to a certain extent

413
00:13:11,030 --> 00:13:09,519
what your show does by by its

414
00:13:12,550 --> 00:13:11,040
willingness to go

415
00:13:14,069 --> 00:13:12,560
back you know even like you did the

416
00:13:16,150 --> 00:13:14,079
thing on jeffrey epstein

417
00:13:17,110 --> 00:13:16,160
it's like okay start cranking it back

418
00:13:18,870 --> 00:13:17,120
and now boom

419
00:13:21,030 --> 00:13:18,880
the connections start leading us further

420
00:13:22,949 --> 00:13:21,040
and further back

421
00:13:24,870 --> 00:13:22,959
don't you get kind of a more of a

422
00:13:26,629 --> 00:13:24,880
business as usual sense

423
00:13:28,389 --> 00:13:26,639
about that dimitri you know when you

424
00:13:29,590 --> 00:13:28,399
talk about hollywood in the last 10

425
00:13:33,190 --> 00:13:29,600
years and what's going on

426
00:13:36,230 --> 00:13:33,200
[\h__\h] man that's a business ass freaking

427
00:13:37,990 --> 00:13:36,240
you know normal oh a hundred percent a

428
00:13:39,670 --> 00:13:38,000
hundred percent and i think the more

429
00:13:42,069 --> 00:13:39,680
that i've i've had to revise

430
00:13:43,590 --> 00:13:42,079
even my own history and even under some

431
00:13:45,430 --> 00:13:43,600
some of the most recent episodes i've

432
00:13:47,189 --> 00:13:45,440
discovered new things that throw

433
00:13:48,550 --> 00:13:47,199
even yeah the further back history of

434
00:13:50,310 --> 00:13:48,560
hollywood in

435
00:13:51,990 --> 00:13:50,320
quite a different light that you know i

436
00:13:53,990 --> 00:13:52,000
realized that yeah no that's been a

437
00:13:55,590 --> 00:13:54,000
gradual process of discoveries that

438
00:13:57,269 --> 00:13:55,600
hollywood's always been it's always been

439
00:13:58,790 --> 00:13:57,279
hollywood babylon you know what i mean

440
00:14:01,269 --> 00:13:58,800
from like the very beginning

441
00:14:02,710 --> 00:14:01,279
it's always been a dirty business and i

442
00:14:04,710 --> 00:14:02,720
think it's just sort of like it's

443
00:14:05,750 --> 00:14:04,720
it they're new things manifesting i

444
00:14:07,350 --> 00:14:05,760
think the really

445
00:14:10,069 --> 00:14:07,360
the only thing that's kind of really new

446
00:14:13,189 --> 00:14:10,079
in the last 10 years in particular

447
00:14:14,870 --> 00:14:13,199
is the um hybridization or some would

448
00:14:17,269 --> 00:14:14,880
say you know takeover

449
00:14:18,470 --> 00:14:17,279
of of hollywood by silicon valley and

450
00:14:20,470 --> 00:14:18,480
the tech companies

451
00:14:22,069 --> 00:14:20,480
and now that is like they are actually

452
00:14:24,069 --> 00:14:22,079
in within a span of about

453
00:14:25,670 --> 00:14:24,079
five to seven years they've become kind

454
00:14:28,629 --> 00:14:25,680
of the undisputed hegemons

455
00:14:30,550 --> 00:14:28,639
of the entire like movie business and

456
00:14:32,389 --> 00:14:30,560
you know but even that goes back so much

457
00:14:33,110 --> 00:14:32,399
further to say that you know oh they

458
00:14:34,790 --> 00:14:33,120
just started

459
00:14:36,470 --> 00:14:34,800
kind of interacting with one another in

460
00:14:37,670 --> 00:14:36,480
the 2010s they do

461
00:14:39,829 --> 00:14:37,680
you know i mean these are the two

462
00:14:41,430 --> 00:14:39,839
biggest industries in california

463
00:14:43,590 --> 00:14:41,440
you know it makes sense that they would

464
00:14:44,470 --> 00:14:43,600
have overlap going further back and also

465
00:14:46,710 --> 00:14:44,480
just with the

466
00:14:48,629 --> 00:14:46,720
the the satanism thing i mean you know

467
00:14:51,030 --> 00:14:48,639
we've talked a lot about the 60s

468
00:14:51,829 --> 00:14:51,040
and that's another big like ontological

469
00:14:54,150 --> 00:14:51,839
breakthrough

470
00:14:55,590 --> 00:14:54,160
that i think you know i i had over the

471
00:14:58,790 --> 00:14:55,600
last few years is that

472
00:15:00,150 --> 00:14:58,800
the 60s were not exactly what we were

473
00:15:02,230 --> 00:15:00,160
commonly told they were

474
00:15:03,670 --> 00:15:02,240
whether whether you kind of agree with

475
00:15:05,590 --> 00:15:03,680
the 60s or

476
00:15:06,949 --> 00:15:05,600
you think that they were stupid because

477
00:15:08,710 --> 00:15:06,959
america rules or so

478
00:15:10,470 --> 00:15:08,720
hippies were bad or something like that

479
00:15:12,230 --> 00:15:10,480
you know like both of those

480
00:15:14,069 --> 00:15:12,240
narratives are kind of wrong and that

481
00:15:17,110 --> 00:15:14,079
there was so much more going on

482
00:15:19,590 --> 00:15:17,120
in terms of like social manipulation

483
00:15:20,150 --> 00:15:19,600
that and and cultural manipulation that

484
00:15:21,990 --> 00:15:20,160
is so

485
00:15:24,230 --> 00:15:22,000
baked into our culture now that it's

486
00:15:25,750 --> 00:15:24,240
like that that's maybe

487
00:15:28,389 --> 00:15:25,760
that kind of fuels us i think on our

488
00:15:28,870 --> 00:15:28,399
deepest dives is we have to unpack all

489
00:15:32,310 --> 00:15:28,880
this

490
00:15:34,230 --> 00:15:32,320
built

491
00:15:36,069 --> 00:15:34,240
over uh decades and in some cases

492
00:15:38,069 --> 00:15:36,079
centuries you know if we're talking

493
00:15:40,150 --> 00:15:38,079
about the united states overall

494
00:15:41,749 --> 00:15:40,160
that you know to get at the kind of

495
00:15:44,069 --> 00:15:41,759
truth or try to apprehend

496
00:15:45,430 --> 00:15:44,079
kind of where we're really at i think

497
00:15:47,030 --> 00:15:45,440
you do have to

498
00:15:48,389 --> 00:15:47,040
yeah you have to dig back and then you

499
00:15:48,949 --> 00:15:48,399
do fine i think you're absolutely

500
00:15:50,949 --> 00:15:48,959
correct

501
00:15:52,230 --> 00:15:50,959
that it ain't nothing new under the sun

502
00:15:53,990 --> 00:15:52,240
as we'd love to see yeah

503
00:15:56,069 --> 00:15:54,000
that's one of our i think a historical

504
00:15:57,030 --> 00:15:56,079
methodology is very valuable because

505
00:15:58,470 --> 00:15:57,040
there's two

506
00:16:00,310 --> 00:15:58,480
it's really a dialectical thing because

507
00:16:01,590 --> 00:16:00,320
yeah like as demetrius said often times

508
00:16:02,470 --> 00:16:01,600
our refrain is there's nothing new under

509
00:16:03,749 --> 00:16:02,480
the sun which is

510
00:16:05,910 --> 00:16:03,759
you know something that we say kind of

511
00:16:07,990 --> 00:16:05,920
ironically it's a reference to a

512
00:16:10,150 --> 00:16:08,000
kind of a reactionary podcast that we

513
00:16:14,150 --> 00:16:10,160
stumbled upon it was a little bit of a

514
00:16:16,389 --> 00:16:14,160
fascist uh convo ongoing between two

515
00:16:18,069 --> 00:16:16,399
esteemed mikes but uh yeah michael

516
00:16:19,189 --> 00:16:18,079
schumer the bin laden hunter i think

517
00:16:20,629 --> 00:16:19,199
that there's a lot of value to

518
00:16:21,990 --> 00:16:20,639
historical methodology because yeah on

519
00:16:24,949 --> 00:16:22,000
one hand you have what we

520
00:16:26,470 --> 00:16:24,959
mentioned but on the other it's you it's

521
00:16:27,749 --> 00:16:26,480
often good to have a granular approach

522
00:16:28,310 --> 00:16:27,759
and something that is very encouraged

523
00:16:30,310 --> 00:16:28,320
when

524
00:16:31,829 --> 00:16:30,320
you're dealing with historical topics is

525
00:16:33,509 --> 00:16:31,839
to really

526
00:16:34,870 --> 00:16:33,519
hone in on the fine differences to find

527
00:16:36,470 --> 00:16:34,880
distinctions between

528
00:16:37,910 --> 00:16:36,480
uh different things and you can do you

529
00:16:39,990 --> 00:16:37,920
could do see i think that

530
00:16:42,069 --> 00:16:40,000
there are changes and i think that we

531
00:16:45,110 --> 00:16:42,079
try to stress the dialectic between

532
00:16:45,430 --> 00:16:45,120
these uh overarching trends you know one

533
00:16:46,710 --> 00:16:45,440
of

534
00:16:48,710 --> 00:16:46,720
these broad trends these you know things

535
00:16:49,509 --> 00:16:48,720
that happened in the long tere versus

536
00:16:51,749 --> 00:16:49,519
things that

537
00:16:53,749 --> 00:16:51,759
you need to transform in in the

538
00:16:55,990 --> 00:16:53,759
microcosm and i think that yeah that's

539
00:16:58,710 --> 00:16:56,000
part of historical approach is to

540
00:17:00,310 --> 00:16:58,720
show the the changes and to to show the

541
00:17:02,069 --> 00:17:00,320
way these things evolve and develop and

542
00:17:03,670 --> 00:17:02,079
a lot of time yet there are continuities

543
00:17:05,510 --> 00:17:03,680
but there are also breaks like i think

544
00:17:06,390 --> 00:17:05,520
that the cultural history especially the

545
00:17:07,829 --> 00:17:06,400
history of art

546
00:17:09,669 --> 00:17:07,839
which you mentioned is very interesting

547
00:17:11,669 --> 00:17:09,679
because you know at the surface level

548
00:17:13,189 --> 00:17:11,679
a lot of time people get into the sort

549
00:17:15,270 --> 00:17:13,199
of hidden world and they want to deal

550
00:17:16,870 --> 00:17:15,280
with uh hidden knowledge like occult a

551
00:17:17,350 --> 00:17:16,880
subject's you know it's something that

552
00:17:20,230 --> 00:17:17,360
is a

553
00:17:22,150 --> 00:17:20,240
perennial topic in conspiracy uh culture

554
00:17:23,590 --> 00:17:22,160
and conspiracy discourse which is

555
00:17:23,909 --> 00:17:23,600
something that we definitely touch on a

556
00:17:26,150 --> 00:17:23,919
lot

557
00:17:27,510 --> 00:17:26,160
in our in our podcast and something that

558
00:17:29,350 --> 00:17:27,520
came to this four i think

559
00:17:31,430 --> 00:17:29,360
is a good example during the sort of

560
00:17:33,909 --> 00:17:31,440
pizzagate discourse i started at the

561
00:17:35,750 --> 00:17:33,919
the election time in 2016 was you know

562
00:17:36,150 --> 00:17:35,760
marina abramovic you know someone who's

563
00:17:38,150 --> 00:17:36,160
like

564
00:17:39,190 --> 00:17:38,160
pretty well you're known to people who

565
00:17:41,590 --> 00:17:39,200
are

566
00:17:43,029 --> 00:17:41,600
involved in art or in performance art or

567
00:17:43,430 --> 00:17:43,039
have a knowledge of that type of thing

568
00:17:44,710 --> 00:17:43,440
but

569
00:17:46,710 --> 00:17:44,720
this is breaking into a totally

570
00:17:48,390 --> 00:17:46,720
different field where people who

571
00:17:50,390 --> 00:17:48,400
had never had any contact with this

572
00:17:51,830 --> 00:17:50,400
stuff are like what is this like oh my

573
00:17:52,789 --> 00:17:51,840
god like you know so it's very

574
00:17:53,590 --> 00:17:52,799
interesting to explore you know these

575
00:17:55,590 --> 00:17:53,600
topics are very

576
00:17:57,430 --> 00:17:55,600
of great interest to people but there

577
00:17:59,029 --> 00:17:57,440
isn't much for one i think that

578
00:18:01,190 --> 00:17:59,039
in general like in american culture

579
00:18:02,630 --> 00:18:01,200
there's a lack of historical awareness

580
00:18:04,390 --> 00:18:02,640
writ large like people's politics are

581
00:18:06,310 --> 00:18:04,400
very underdeveloped because of

582
00:18:07,750 --> 00:18:06,320
their lack of historical appreciation

583
00:18:08,470 --> 00:18:07,760
but particularly like in the domain of

584
00:18:10,470 --> 00:18:08,480
culture

585
00:18:12,630 --> 00:18:10,480
and the the like art is something that's

586
00:18:13,430 --> 00:18:12,640
marginalized anyway it's importance in

587
00:18:16,310 --> 00:18:13,440
shaping uh

588
00:18:17,990 --> 00:18:16,320
culture and shaping our you know in our

589
00:18:19,190 --> 00:18:18,000
society and our relationships with

590
00:18:20,630 --> 00:18:19,200
with each other and with different

591
00:18:21,830 --> 00:18:20,640
institutions but i think that in

592
00:18:22,950 --> 00:18:21,840
particular the history of art the

593
00:18:23,990 --> 00:18:22,960
cultural evolution of art and the link

594
00:18:27,510 --> 00:18:24,000
between art and

595
00:18:29,110 --> 00:18:27,520
the way that these sort of elite

596
00:18:30,549 --> 00:18:29,120
subcultures move together

597
00:18:32,230 --> 00:18:30,559
that's something that's very interesting

598
00:18:33,750 --> 00:18:32,240
and it's a story that's not

599
00:18:36,470 --> 00:18:33,760
really well appreciated like within

600
00:18:38,630 --> 00:18:36,480
those discursive fields i think

601
00:18:39,830 --> 00:18:38,640
see i i don't know and that's where i

602
00:18:42,390 --> 00:18:39,840
guess i when i

603
00:18:44,230 --> 00:18:42,400
shot you this uh email and i said i i

604
00:18:47,350 --> 00:18:44,240
want to get to terra firma

605
00:18:47,669 --> 00:18:47,360
because you know and and i just did a

606
00:18:50,950 --> 00:18:47,679
book

607
00:18:51,590 --> 00:18:50,960
why evil matters and the kind of premise

608
00:18:55,110 --> 00:18:51,600
of the book

609
00:18:57,669 --> 00:18:55,120
was that we've been intentionally

610
00:18:59,750 --> 00:18:57,679
kind of given the bait and bait and

611
00:19:02,230 --> 00:18:59,760
switch not really but with evil but

612
00:19:03,029 --> 00:19:02,240
we have a materialistic science that

613
00:19:05,029 --> 00:19:03,039
says

614
00:19:06,470 --> 00:19:05,039
evil doesn't exist yeah you're a

615
00:19:08,230 --> 00:19:06,480
biological robot in a meaningless

616
00:19:13,830 --> 00:19:08,240
universe it's a social construct and

617
00:19:17,430 --> 00:19:15,990
but then on the other hand we we got the

618
00:19:18,390 --> 00:19:17,440
the only other we're kind of given this

619
00:19:20,789 --> 00:19:18,400
forced choice

620
00:19:22,230 --> 00:19:20,799
or if you're going to you know explore

621
00:19:23,110 --> 00:19:22,240
the possibility of evil and what that

622
00:19:25,110 --> 00:19:23,120
would mean from

623
00:19:26,230 --> 00:19:25,120
for yourself personally what that would

624
00:19:27,990 --> 00:19:26,240
mean

625
00:19:29,270 --> 00:19:28,000
is there a moral imperative how should i

626
00:19:31,029 --> 00:19:29,280
lead my life kind of thing

627
00:19:32,950 --> 00:19:31,039
then you're kind of forced over to

628
00:19:34,710 --> 00:19:32,960
religious dogma and it says oh

629
00:19:36,549 --> 00:19:34,720
hold on buddy you had a spiritual

630
00:19:37,270 --> 00:19:36,559
experience let me jump right in the

631
00:19:39,350 --> 00:19:37,280
middle of that

632
00:19:40,710 --> 00:19:39,360
let me be the intermediary between you

633
00:19:42,789 --> 00:19:40,720
and your spiritual experience

634
00:19:45,430 --> 00:19:42,799
and tell you exactly what it was see and

635
00:19:47,750 --> 00:19:45,440
i had all this great material

636
00:19:48,549 --> 00:19:47,760
and then you blew it because i found out

637
00:19:51,110 --> 00:19:48,559
khalid

638
00:19:52,549 --> 00:19:51,120
you really are a muslim and i was like

639
00:19:53,110 --> 00:19:52,559
whoa i was going to do this whole thing

640
00:19:56,230 --> 00:19:53,120
on ed

641
00:19:58,070 --> 00:19:56,240
opperman whose show you're on and say i

642
00:19:58,789 --> 00:19:58,080
love ed operman i've supported at

643
00:20:01,990 --> 00:19:58,799
operman

644
00:20:03,830 --> 00:20:02,000
on various times but he's a big

645
00:20:07,110 --> 00:20:03,840
tent fundamentalist christian that

646
00:20:09,669 --> 00:20:07,120
believes that there's this book that has

647
00:20:10,630 --> 00:20:09,679
answers to how we should live our life

648
00:20:12,390 --> 00:20:10,640
and talk about

649
00:20:13,669 --> 00:20:12,400
conspiracy which has been my kind of

650
00:20:16,230 --> 00:20:13,679
thing lately is

651
00:20:17,270 --> 00:20:16,240
unwilling to explore the possibility

652
00:20:19,190 --> 00:20:17,280
that the cons

653
00:20:21,430 --> 00:20:19,200
that really the authors of the book were

654
00:20:24,149 --> 00:20:21,440
part of a social engineering project

655
00:20:25,990 --> 00:20:24,159
and using the well-worn play of

656
00:20:27,190 --> 00:20:26,000
throughout history but that the romans

657
00:20:30,390 --> 00:20:27,200
really perfected

658
00:20:32,710 --> 00:20:30,400
which is like sure rocks and arrows are

659
00:20:33,750 --> 00:20:32,720
are great but if i can control you by

660
00:20:35,830 --> 00:20:33,760
controlling

661
00:20:37,190 --> 00:20:35,840
and rescripting your religion all the

662
00:20:40,789 --> 00:20:37,200
better so

663
00:20:44,230 --> 00:20:40,799
i don't know where where did to me

664
00:20:47,430 --> 00:20:44,240
that kind of trumps the

665
00:20:48,230 --> 00:20:47,440
art history thing of getting to the

666
00:20:50,390 --> 00:20:48,240
fundamental

667
00:20:52,070 --> 00:20:50,400
reality of what we're talking about with

668
00:20:54,789 --> 00:20:52,080
something like

669
00:20:55,590 --> 00:20:54,799
evil or satanic or you know whatever

670
00:20:56,950 --> 00:20:55,600
these

671
00:20:58,310 --> 00:20:56,960
players are doing things are very

672
00:21:00,070 --> 00:20:58,320
interesting i mean i think that the best

673
00:21:02,070 --> 00:21:00,080
art does deal with those topics and

674
00:21:04,549 --> 00:21:02,080
there is a philosophical dimension to

675
00:21:05,190 --> 00:21:04,559
uh what art engages with i mean even i

676
00:21:07,270 --> 00:21:05,200
think that

677
00:21:08,470 --> 00:21:07,280
marina bromfish you know her work really

678
00:21:10,549 --> 00:21:08,480
does deal with those questions and

679
00:21:11,830 --> 00:21:10,559
it has the symbology of it so powerful

680
00:21:14,070 --> 00:21:11,840
to people is because

681
00:21:15,430 --> 00:21:14,080
uh performance art does have a ritual

682
00:21:15,990 --> 00:21:15,440
dimension to it which touches on these

683
00:21:17,350 --> 00:21:16,000
religious

684
00:21:19,190 --> 00:21:17,360
ideas you know that's uh it's the

685
00:21:20,630 --> 00:21:19,200
intersection that creates the the

686
00:21:21,590 --> 00:21:20,640
interest so i think that yeah absolutely

687
00:21:23,430 --> 00:21:21,600
you're right and we do

688
00:21:24,950 --> 00:21:23,440
often deal with these ideas on the show

689
00:21:26,630 --> 00:21:24,960
i mean our show is very heavily uh

690
00:21:28,230 --> 00:21:26,640
inspired by these questions around

691
00:21:30,070 --> 00:21:28,240
religious ontology and these core

692
00:21:31,350 --> 00:21:30,080
concepts but yeah i think that you know

693
00:21:33,350 --> 00:21:31,360
well for one

694
00:21:35,669 --> 00:21:33,360
muslims i certainly don't necessarily

695
00:21:37,990 --> 00:21:35,679
disagree with uh what you said about

696
00:21:39,669 --> 00:21:38,000
about christianity it's a pretty uh

697
00:21:41,750 --> 00:21:39,679
common notion but

698
00:21:43,110 --> 00:21:41,760
you know of course there's wait a minute

699
00:21:44,789 --> 00:21:43,120
hold on hold on full stop

700
00:21:46,390 --> 00:21:44,799
full stop if we're going to go there i

701
00:21:47,909 --> 00:21:46,400
mean you guys are still looking at the

702
00:21:48,789 --> 00:21:47,919
book and saying the book has all the

703
00:21:50,149 --> 00:21:48,799
rules

704
00:21:51,750 --> 00:21:50,159
whether it's the old testament or

705
00:21:52,230 --> 00:21:51,760
whether it's the quran you're still

706
00:21:55,270 --> 00:21:52,240
saying

707
00:21:55,990 --> 00:21:55,280
hey it comes through this book and let's

708
00:21:59,430 --> 00:21:56,000
just be real

709
00:22:01,110 --> 00:21:59,440
for most people you just go for real

710
00:22:02,870 --> 00:22:01,120
really color that's you believe there's

711
00:22:04,630 --> 00:22:02,880
this book there's this magic

712
00:22:06,230 --> 00:22:04,640
that's true for most people i think that

713
00:22:07,909 --> 00:22:06,240
most people do believe something like

714
00:22:09,590 --> 00:22:07,919
that about a book and we don't believe

715
00:22:12,310 --> 00:22:09,600
that it's magic we believe that it's a

716
00:22:14,710 --> 00:22:12,320
prophetic revelation from a allah but

717
00:22:16,789 --> 00:22:14,720
the fact is that there's always some

718
00:22:18,470 --> 00:22:16,799
interpretations of of the book you know

719
00:22:20,549 --> 00:22:18,480
the interpretation of the book is a

720
00:22:22,149 --> 00:22:20,559
is something that happens in between the

721
00:22:23,350 --> 00:22:22,159
text itself you know there's something

722
00:22:24,870 --> 00:22:23,360
and this is something that you know

723
00:22:26,630 --> 00:22:24,880
islamic philosophers and islamic

724
00:22:28,950 --> 00:22:26,640
thinkers like always acknowledge that

725
00:22:30,950 --> 00:22:28,960
something happens in between the in the

726
00:22:32,789 --> 00:22:30,960
act of reading you know the quran is

727
00:22:34,070 --> 00:22:32,799
first existed verbally you know this is

728
00:22:36,630 --> 00:22:34,080
something that you know

729
00:22:37,430 --> 00:22:36,640
or and you know it it's reading and it's

730
00:22:38,950 --> 00:22:37,440
also

731
00:22:40,630 --> 00:22:38,960
uh recitation you know it's something

732
00:22:41,190 --> 00:22:40,640
that when you recite the quran and it's

733
00:22:43,990 --> 00:22:41,200
an act

734
00:22:45,110 --> 00:22:44,000
it takes place with your entire body and

735
00:22:46,710 --> 00:22:45,120
you know there's a bit of a digression

736
00:22:47,990 --> 00:22:46,720
but there's always an interpretive

737
00:22:50,070 --> 00:22:48,000
practice that happens and that's why

738
00:22:51,990 --> 00:22:50,080
within islam there's so many different

739
00:22:53,669 --> 00:22:52,000
interpretations of the quran if you go

740
00:22:55,990 --> 00:22:53,679
through history you know you even have

741
00:22:57,430 --> 00:22:56,000
esoteric sex that interpret the quran in

742
00:22:58,549 --> 00:22:57,440
in completely different ways you know

743
00:23:00,230 --> 00:22:58,559
people who read

744
00:23:01,909 --> 00:23:00,240
the words you know a lot of the quran

745
00:23:03,590 --> 00:23:01,919
isn't cut and dry some of it is and the

746
00:23:06,230 --> 00:23:03,600
quran itself says that some

747
00:23:06,630 --> 00:23:06,240
verses are straightforward and others

748
00:23:08,549 --> 00:23:06,640
are

749
00:23:10,149 --> 00:23:08,559
majes you know they're allegorical

750
00:23:11,510 --> 00:23:10,159
they're open to different sort of

751
00:23:13,270 --> 00:23:11,520
interpretations and the

752
00:23:14,549 --> 00:23:13,280
but it doesn't specify which are which

753
00:23:16,390 --> 00:23:14,559
so there's great uh sort of

754
00:23:18,230 --> 00:23:16,400
debate about this you know the the

755
00:23:21,270 --> 00:23:18,240
divinity of the quran doesn't

756
00:23:22,789 --> 00:23:21,280
really minimize the what you're talking

757
00:23:23,830 --> 00:23:22,799
about i think or what you're getting at

758
00:23:25,830 --> 00:23:23,840
the fact that

759
00:23:27,350 --> 00:23:25,840
there is a dimension of of human

760
00:23:28,789 --> 00:23:27,360
interpretation you know it's about

761
00:23:31,190 --> 00:23:28,799
the interaction with the book you know

762
00:23:33,110 --> 00:23:31,200
no book exists without the reader you

763
00:23:34,950 --> 00:23:33,120
know it only exists in so far as we read

764
00:23:37,510 --> 00:23:34,960
it and engage with it and interpret it

765
00:23:39,110 --> 00:23:37,520
so to you know the book can't just

766
00:23:41,110 --> 00:23:39,120
program us you know it's not like it's a

767
00:23:42,870 --> 00:23:41,120
software that we insert into ourselves

768
00:23:44,230 --> 00:23:42,880
you know maybe some muslims would like

769
00:23:45,510 --> 00:23:44,240
it if that were the case but

770
00:23:47,750 --> 00:23:45,520
that's not really just how these

771
00:23:49,190 --> 00:23:47,760
religions unfold historically you know

772
00:23:50,870 --> 00:23:49,200
french adoption of being a born-again

773
00:23:53,110 --> 00:23:50,880
christian you know his interpretation of

774
00:23:54,470 --> 00:23:53,120
the bible or even the role of the bible

775
00:23:55,830 --> 00:23:54,480
is going to be different than from like

776
00:23:58,470 --> 00:23:55,840
a catholic or something like that

777
00:24:00,070 --> 00:23:58,480
so it just doesn't hold up to this kind

778
00:24:01,029 --> 00:24:00,080
of scrutiny and this isn't where i was

779
00:24:03,190 --> 00:24:01,039
planning on going

780
00:24:04,390 --> 00:24:03,200
with this show but i i've now stacked up

781
00:24:06,630 --> 00:24:04,400
about 10 shows on

782
00:24:07,750 --> 00:24:06,640
got i just got super interested in the

783
00:24:09,590 --> 00:24:07,760
origins of

784
00:24:11,110 --> 00:24:09,600
christianity because it really the

785
00:24:14,310 --> 00:24:11,120
further you dig in

786
00:24:17,510 --> 00:24:14,320
it has all the all the fingerprints

787
00:24:19,830 --> 00:24:17,520
of a psyop and the real giveaway is

788
00:24:21,029 --> 00:24:19,840
josephus right josephus who is the

789
00:24:23,430 --> 00:24:21,039
quote-unquote

790
00:24:25,590 --> 00:24:23,440
roman historian he's not really a yes

791
00:24:26,470 --> 00:24:25,600
historian he's a propaganda agent for

792
00:24:29,909 --> 00:24:26,480
the romans

793
00:24:33,029 --> 00:24:29,919
but yeah yeah you can't get past

794
00:24:36,149 --> 00:24:33,039
josephus and then just jump right

795
00:24:39,750 --> 00:24:36,159
into the quran and say oh we can

796
00:24:42,950 --> 00:24:39,760
it all flows together if josephus is

797
00:24:46,149 --> 00:24:42,960
is a propaganda agent who is

798
00:24:48,149 --> 00:24:46,159
trying to co-opt judaism in favor of the

799
00:24:50,230 --> 00:24:48,159
roman empire first is what he does

800
00:24:51,350 --> 00:24:50,240
and i can show you exactly the passage

801
00:24:53,830 --> 00:24:51,360
and more of the jews

802
00:24:54,950 --> 00:24:53,840
where he says hey you jews you got it

803
00:24:56,630 --> 00:24:54,960
wrong you know

804
00:24:58,710 --> 00:24:56,640
we you've been looking for the messiah

805
00:25:00,149 --> 00:24:58,720
born on our soil

806
00:25:02,789 --> 00:25:00,159
what you really should have been looking

807
00:25:05,909 --> 00:25:02,799
at is vespasian the emperor you know

808
00:25:08,070 --> 00:25:05,919
uh titus's father he's really so

809
00:25:09,750 --> 00:25:08,080
the point is not getting off into that

810
00:25:13,350 --> 00:25:09,760
whole thing which my audience has heard

811
00:25:15,669 --> 00:25:13,360
50 times now is getting tired of

812
00:25:16,549 --> 00:25:15,679
you gotta process that in this whole

813
00:25:17,830 --> 00:25:16,559
thing you

814
00:25:19,110 --> 00:25:17,840
you can't say oh well then there's

815
00:25:20,710 --> 00:25:19,120
catholics and there's well there's

816
00:25:21,990 --> 00:25:20,720
protestants and they do it this way and

817
00:25:25,110 --> 00:25:22,000
the mormons have taken

818
00:25:28,230 --> 00:25:25,120
no if the thing fails at that level

819
00:25:30,470 --> 00:25:28,240
at first century rome psyopping

820
00:25:31,350 --> 00:25:30,480
religion that then spawns all those

821
00:25:34,710 --> 00:25:31,360
religions

822
00:25:35,750 --> 00:25:34,720
islam and judaism and christianity in

823
00:25:37,669 --> 00:25:35,760
all its forms

824
00:25:41,029 --> 00:25:37,679
you've got to get back and if it doesn't

825
00:25:43,350 --> 00:25:41,039
hold it doesn't hold you can't just

826
00:25:44,149 --> 00:25:43,360
gloss over it with you know convenient

827
00:25:45,430 --> 00:25:44,159
well it's

828
00:25:47,269 --> 00:25:45,440
allegorical and you know the

829
00:25:49,430 --> 00:25:47,279
interpretation of it is

830
00:25:50,870 --> 00:25:49,440
i believe that people can have a genuine

831
00:25:53,510 --> 00:25:50,880
spiritual experience

832
00:25:55,430 --> 00:25:53,520
because the science kind of is

833
00:25:56,149 --> 00:25:55,440
overwhelming for example the near-death

834
00:25:58,630 --> 00:25:56,159
experience

835
00:25:59,669 --> 00:25:58,640
science you can't get past it it blows

836
00:26:03,590 --> 00:25:59,679
neurology

837
00:26:05,750 --> 00:26:03,600
the water and every culture throughout

838
00:26:07,830 --> 00:26:05,760
time has said there is such a thing as

839
00:26:09,110 --> 00:26:07,840
this spiritual experience but i just

840
00:26:12,470 --> 00:26:09,120
don't think the book

841
00:26:14,070 --> 00:26:12,480
thing really holds up can i ask a

842
00:26:17,590 --> 00:26:14,080
question

843
00:26:20,230 --> 00:26:17,600
related to this so i if you believe and

844
00:26:23,830 --> 00:26:20,240
i'm i'm open to entertaining this idea

845
00:26:24,630 --> 00:26:23,840
you if you believe that say christianity

846
00:26:27,110 --> 00:26:24,640
or

847
00:26:28,310 --> 00:26:27,120
judaism and all the abrahamic tradition

848
00:26:30,390 --> 00:26:28,320
that followed from it was a

849
00:26:32,070 --> 00:26:30,400
psyop do you believe that it was one

850
00:26:34,630 --> 00:26:32,080
continuous group

851
00:26:35,269 --> 00:26:34,640
or kind of order or something like that

852
00:26:36,950 --> 00:26:35,279
like who

853
00:26:38,710 --> 00:26:36,960
who would you pause it was behind this i

854
00:26:41,269 --> 00:26:38,720
mean i guess i i could definitely see

855
00:26:42,710 --> 00:26:41,279
vespasian and the romans particularly

856
00:26:44,870 --> 00:26:42,720
from josephus up to

857
00:26:46,149 --> 00:26:44,880
you know theodosius and constantine

858
00:26:48,630 --> 00:26:46,159
basically co-opting

859
00:26:49,830 --> 00:26:48,640
christianity and then you know cloaking

860
00:26:52,710 --> 00:26:49,840
themselves in it you know

861
00:26:53,590 --> 00:26:52,720
in like the 300s but who would you say

862
00:26:56,070 --> 00:26:53,600
you know if there's

863
00:26:57,350 --> 00:26:56,080
if the you know the the jewish text

864
00:26:58,470 --> 00:26:57,360
going way way back

865
00:27:00,070 --> 00:26:58,480
if it was all a sight do you think it

866
00:27:01,029 --> 00:27:00,080
was the same psyop or do you think it's

867
00:27:03,750 --> 00:27:01,039
different elites

868
00:27:04,789 --> 00:27:03,760
throughout history have weaponized

869
00:27:08,710 --> 00:27:04,799
spiritual

870
00:27:11,269 --> 00:27:08,720
ritual practice and religious dogma

871
00:27:13,430 --> 00:27:11,279
i don't know but i would i think it's a

872
00:27:14,310 --> 00:27:13,440
fantastic question i would definitely

873
00:27:16,310 --> 00:27:14,320
definitely

874
00:27:17,750 --> 00:27:16,320
assume that it's the latter because if

875
00:27:19,909 --> 00:27:17,760
you really look at

876
00:27:20,950 --> 00:27:19,919
the possibility and explore it and i'm

877
00:27:24,070 --> 00:27:20,960
like in

878
00:27:24,950 --> 00:27:24,080
conversation email and interview

879
00:27:27,029 --> 00:27:24,960
conversation

880
00:27:28,149 --> 00:27:27,039
with leading you know biblical and

881
00:27:30,149 --> 00:27:28,159
religious scholars

882
00:27:32,630 --> 00:27:30,159
who most of them are telling me i'm full

883
00:27:34,310 --> 00:27:32,640
of [\h__\h] but some of them are saying

884
00:27:36,389 --> 00:27:34,320
yeah come on that's really the only way

885
00:27:39,350 --> 00:27:36,399
to kind of process that but if you do

886
00:27:40,870 --> 00:27:39,360
process it what you wind up with is

887
00:27:44,389 --> 00:27:40,880
josephus's first

888
00:27:46,789 --> 00:27:44,399
attempt at this is to kind of

889
00:27:49,110 --> 00:27:46,799
co-op judaism right because that's when

890
00:27:50,710 --> 00:27:49,120
he says vespasian is the emperor well

891
00:27:51,590 --> 00:27:50,720
that has nothing to do with christianity

892
00:27:54,070 --> 00:27:51,600
it's it's wait

893
00:27:55,590 --> 00:27:54,080
it's actually written after supposedly

894
00:27:57,269 --> 00:27:55,600
the historical jesus lived

895
00:27:58,789 --> 00:27:57,279
but it's really an attempt just to kind

896
00:28:01,510 --> 00:27:58,799
of quell so

897
00:28:03,350 --> 00:28:01,520
to to see it as this kind of continuous

898
00:28:03,830 --> 00:28:03,360
psyop that's played over hundreds of

899
00:28:07,110 --> 00:28:03,840
years

900
00:28:09,909 --> 00:28:07,120
i think is is is silly but to have it

901
00:28:11,029 --> 00:28:09,919
like we see today you know it's just

902
00:28:14,710 --> 00:28:11,039
it's a play

903
00:28:15,029 --> 00:28:14,720
in the playbook it's gloria steinem you

904
00:28:16,149 --> 00:28:15,039
know

905
00:28:19,430 --> 00:28:16,159
people get tired of hearing me talk

906
00:28:21,029 --> 00:28:19,440
about that it's glorious signum cia

907
00:28:22,630 --> 00:28:21,039
sticker in the women's movement we'll

908
00:28:25,110 --> 00:28:22,640
figure out how to use it later

909
00:28:26,070 --> 00:28:25,120
it's laurel canyon stick those guys up

910
00:28:28,070 --> 00:28:26,080
there on the stage

911
00:28:29,190 --> 00:28:28,080
we don't have to have a definitive plan

912
00:28:31,029 --> 00:28:29,200
on how we'll use it

913
00:28:33,590 --> 00:28:31,039
let's just make sure we're in that game

914
00:28:37,669 --> 00:28:33,600
kind of thing so if i had to guess

915
00:28:39,190 --> 00:28:37,679
that's how i think it it it happens

916
00:28:41,590 --> 00:28:39,200
yeah okay i mean yeah i got the

917
00:28:43,430 --> 00:28:41,600
phenomenon that does occur

918
00:28:45,029 --> 00:28:43,440
but i don't think that like yeah i kind

919
00:28:46,070 --> 00:28:45,039
of agree with dimitri's always

920
00:28:47,830 --> 00:28:46,080
implication that i

921
00:28:49,990 --> 00:28:47,840
you know i think that's a very different

922
00:28:51,750 --> 00:28:50,000
thing to talk about the origins of islam

923
00:28:53,190 --> 00:28:51,760
and the origins of christianity you know

924
00:28:54,549 --> 00:28:53,200
i think that there is certainly a muslim

925
00:28:55,269 --> 00:28:54,559
critique of christianity you know we

926
00:28:57,269 --> 00:28:55,279
don't really

927
00:28:58,630 --> 00:28:57,279
follow the bible itself you know the new

928
00:29:00,470 --> 00:28:58,640
testament we don't believe is

929
00:29:01,990 --> 00:29:00,480
you know the actual ngo generally

930
00:29:03,190 --> 00:29:02,000
speaking you know there might be some

931
00:29:04,710 --> 00:29:03,200
some difference but

932
00:29:06,310 --> 00:29:04,720
yeah there's a it's a very different

933
00:29:09,669 --> 00:29:06,320
context you know

934
00:29:10,870 --> 00:29:09,679
just years later yeah yeah and just also

935
00:29:12,710 --> 00:29:10,880
to do what i

936
00:29:15,110 --> 00:29:12,720
love to do on our podcast which is like

937
00:29:16,630 --> 00:29:15,120
uh shoehorn marxism into conversations

938
00:29:19,110 --> 00:29:16,640
about religion and vice versa

939
00:29:20,870 --> 00:29:19,120
it doesn't even remind me of a lot of

940
00:29:22,630 --> 00:29:20,880
time kind of like the anthony sutton

941
00:29:25,510 --> 00:29:22,640
like hoover institute type

942
00:29:28,310 --> 00:29:25,520
sort of conspiracy speculation about

943
00:29:29,990 --> 00:29:28,320
karl marx about lennon about trotsky how

944
00:29:31,510 --> 00:29:30,000
you know i've even heard that you know

945
00:29:32,630 --> 00:29:31,520
stalin was was working for the

946
00:29:35,029 --> 00:29:32,640
rothschilds

947
00:29:36,549 --> 00:29:35,039
and everything about the history of like

948
00:29:38,549 --> 00:29:36,559
the bolshevik revolution

949
00:29:39,590 --> 00:29:38,559
and 20th century socialism and the cold

950
00:29:41,990 --> 00:29:39,600
war and all that stuff

951
00:29:43,269 --> 00:29:42,000
was just like a hegelian dialectic ain't

952
00:29:45,110 --> 00:29:43,279
nothing to the sun

953
00:29:46,710 --> 00:29:45,120
just the banker family sponsoring

954
00:29:49,430 --> 00:29:46,720
different factions and

955
00:29:49,909 --> 00:29:49,440
and and that that maybe in a similar way

956
00:29:52,470 --> 00:29:49,919
where it's

957
00:29:54,230 --> 00:29:52,480
where khalid would push back on you know

958
00:29:56,149 --> 00:29:54,240
intimations of the quran was cynically

959
00:29:58,710 --> 00:29:56,159
like manufactured i i would too

960
00:30:01,269 --> 00:29:58,720
probably yeah maybe trotsky but for the

961
00:30:04,549 --> 00:30:01,279
most part that you know and

962
00:30:05,029 --> 00:30:04,559
regardless of kind of like how the ideas

963
00:30:07,190 --> 00:30:05,039
that are

964
00:30:08,590 --> 00:30:07,200
you know left behind in these books were

965
00:30:10,070 --> 00:30:08,600
kind of taken by other people and

966
00:30:11,909 --> 00:30:10,080
instrumentalized and

967
00:30:13,269 --> 00:30:11,919
what unfolded in the history after that

968
00:30:13,750 --> 00:30:13,279
i don't know maybe it's a kind of thing

969
00:30:15,350 --> 00:30:13,760
where

970
00:30:18,310 --> 00:30:15,360
you need to have at least something that

971
00:30:19,830 --> 00:30:18,320
you choose to put some kind of faith in

972
00:30:21,430 --> 00:30:19,840
if you're going to be erratically

973
00:30:22,789 --> 00:30:21,440
critically paranoid about everything

974
00:30:25,269 --> 00:30:22,799
else i don't know but

975
00:30:27,110 --> 00:30:25,279
well i guess where i'm coming from and

976
00:30:28,230 --> 00:30:27,120
and then we can kind of ease off of this

977
00:30:30,630 --> 00:30:28,240
because

978
00:30:31,510 --> 00:30:30,640
terra firma is where i'm coming from so

979
00:30:33,350 --> 00:30:31,520
consciousness

980
00:30:34,950 --> 00:30:33,360
and you know like when we did you guys

981
00:30:35,269 --> 00:30:34,960
did this survey for me and you played

982
00:30:36,789 --> 00:30:35,279
along

983
00:30:38,070 --> 00:30:36,799
was awesome and i have such a better

984
00:30:38,950 --> 00:30:38,080
sense for where you're coming from and i

985
00:30:41,029 --> 00:30:38,960
wouldn't have known

986
00:30:43,350 --> 00:30:41,039
otherwise so i appreciate that but where

987
00:30:45,110 --> 00:30:43,360
i started this investigation was really

988
00:30:46,950 --> 00:30:45,120
kind of looking at it from a scientific

989
00:30:50,710 --> 00:30:46,960
standpoint does the

990
00:30:54,070 --> 00:30:50,720
kind of atheist intellectualized

991
00:30:55,990 --> 00:30:54,080
academia kind of humanist approach

992
00:30:57,350 --> 00:30:56,000
does it really make sense that is your

993
00:30:58,870 --> 00:30:57,360
biological robot in a meaningless

994
00:31:00,870 --> 00:30:58,880
universe get over it

995
00:31:03,269 --> 00:31:00,880
you know get your credit card out and go

996
00:31:03,990 --> 00:31:03,279
to black friday because that's all you

997
00:31:06,870 --> 00:31:04,000
have to live for

998
00:31:08,750 --> 00:31:06,880
life is meaningless and i find that that

999
00:31:10,789 --> 00:31:08,760
doesn't that isn't supportable

1000
00:31:13,110 --> 00:31:10,799
philosophically and it's really not

1001
00:31:15,110 --> 00:31:13,120
supportable scientifically at all

1002
00:31:16,630 --> 00:31:15,120
and i came to conclu i came to the

1003
00:31:18,950 --> 00:31:16,640
conclusion after

1004
00:31:19,909 --> 00:31:18,960
way too long and way too many interviews

1005
00:31:22,470 --> 00:31:19,919
that that wasn't

1006
00:31:24,389 --> 00:31:22,480
accidental that that was an engineered

1007
00:31:25,509 --> 00:31:24,399
socially engineered message is to make

1008
00:31:27,350 --> 00:31:25,519
you feel meaningless

1009
00:31:28,870 --> 00:31:27,360
make you feel you have no spiritual

1010
00:31:30,310 --> 00:31:28,880
connection to anything more

1011
00:31:32,870 --> 00:31:30,320
because you're easier to control and

1012
00:31:33,509 --> 00:31:32,880
manipulate so that was my starting point

1013
00:31:36,789 --> 00:31:33,519
but then

1014
00:31:39,750 --> 00:31:36,799
that also led me into how would we

1015
00:31:40,870 --> 00:31:39,760
in a pre-scientific using scientific

1016
00:31:43,430 --> 00:31:40,880
methods and ideas

1017
00:31:44,870 --> 00:31:43,440
how would we explore this extended

1018
00:31:45,269 --> 00:31:44,880
consciousness that everyone's talking

1019
00:31:46,310 --> 00:31:45,279
about

1020
00:31:48,070 --> 00:31:46,320
and that's why i think it's so

1021
00:31:49,990 --> 00:31:48,080
interesting like because i do want to

1022
00:31:52,070 --> 00:31:50,000
get back onto the stuff that you

1023
00:31:53,830 --> 00:31:52,080
guys talk about because i'm totally

1024
00:31:54,710 --> 00:31:53,840
sincere in what i said you guys have

1025
00:31:55,990 --> 00:31:54,720
this deep dive

1026
00:31:57,669 --> 00:31:56,000
and i want to learn from you because i

1027
00:31:59,190 --> 00:31:57,679
already do unless i learn from you every

1028
00:32:00,789 --> 00:31:59,200
time i listen to your shows

1029
00:32:03,430 --> 00:32:00,799
but one thing i always point out to

1030
00:32:06,630 --> 00:32:03,440
people i point to mkultra

1031
00:32:08,230 --> 00:32:06,640
and i point to project stargate which

1032
00:32:10,230 --> 00:32:08,240
the remote viewing project which a lot

1033
00:32:12,710 --> 00:32:10,240
of people go wait wait remote viewing

1034
00:32:14,230 --> 00:32:12,720
no remote viewing is mkultra and if you

1035
00:32:15,110 --> 00:32:14,240
go listen to help put off in russell

1036
00:32:18,310 --> 00:32:15,120
targ they say

1037
00:32:19,269 --> 00:32:18,320
when sydney came to see us being sidney

1038
00:32:21,990 --> 00:32:19,279
gottlieb

1039
00:32:22,389 --> 00:32:22,000
you know he was the boss he was the guy

1040
00:32:25,590 --> 00:32:22,399
well

1041
00:32:26,230 --> 00:32:25,600
the point of all that is remote viewing

1042
00:32:29,190 --> 00:32:26,240
and

1043
00:32:30,470 --> 00:32:29,200
so many of the other mk ultra programs

1044
00:32:33,590 --> 00:32:30,480
presuppose

1045
00:32:36,070 --> 00:32:33,600
an extended consciousness that is beyond

1046
00:32:37,909 --> 00:32:36,080
our body and some of them presuppose

1047
00:32:40,149 --> 00:32:37,919
whatever that satanic whatever we're

1048
00:32:42,549 --> 00:32:40,159
going to call it that there are these

1049
00:32:44,470 --> 00:32:42,559
other beings in this extended realms

1050
00:32:46,070 --> 00:32:44,480
that may be malevolent but hey we got to

1051
00:32:46,710 --> 00:32:46,080
go see let's go check them out kind of

1052
00:32:48,789 --> 00:32:46,720
thing

1053
00:32:50,070 --> 00:32:48,799
so yeah let's go hang out with jen

1054
00:32:51,830 --> 00:32:50,080
exactly yeah

1055
00:32:53,430 --> 00:32:51,840
jen i love the i loved i was going to

1056
00:32:54,549 --> 00:32:53,440
share that last show you know bigfoot is

1057
00:32:57,909 --> 00:32:54,559
a gin kind of thing

1058
00:32:58,950 --> 00:32:57,919
i love that yeah so the point being i

1059
00:33:02,710 --> 00:32:58,960
think

1060
00:33:03,110 --> 00:33:02,720
i'm not poking at islam to like make

1061
00:33:06,870 --> 00:33:03,120
some

1062
00:33:09,509 --> 00:33:06,880
joke i'm poking at it because i think we

1063
00:33:12,070 --> 00:33:09,519
fundamentally in order to understand

1064
00:33:13,750 --> 00:33:12,080
aquino in order to understand the

1065
00:33:15,830 --> 00:33:13,760
military industrial

1066
00:33:17,750 --> 00:33:15,840
complex which is completely wrapped

1067
00:33:20,470 --> 00:33:17,760
around inseparable

1068
00:33:21,350 --> 00:33:20,480
from michael aquino i think we have to

1069
00:33:24,950 --> 00:33:21,360
understand

1070
00:33:26,950 --> 00:33:24,960
what there is there when it comes to

1071
00:33:29,830 --> 00:33:26,960
these extended consciousness realms

1072
00:33:31,990 --> 00:33:29,840
and the if we're if your definition of

1073
00:33:35,350 --> 00:33:32,000
those extended consciousness realms

1074
00:33:36,789 --> 00:33:35,360
is wait let me get my book out then i'm

1075
00:33:40,230 --> 00:33:36,799
like whoa

1076
00:33:44,149 --> 00:33:40,240
i'm not so sure on that ed opperman

1077
00:33:44,789 --> 00:33:44,159
yeah well yeah i think that well for one

1078
00:33:45,990 --> 00:33:44,799
to me

1079
00:33:48,389 --> 00:33:46,000
what you're talking about in terms of

1080
00:33:48,710 --> 00:33:48,399
spiritual experience you know to me like

1081
00:33:52,630 --> 00:33:48,720
the

1082
00:33:55,669 --> 00:33:52,640
quran is sort of a record of like a

1083
00:33:56,870 --> 00:33:55,679
profound spiritual moment in time you

1084
00:33:59,750 --> 00:33:56,880
know and i think that

1085
00:34:00,870 --> 00:33:59,760
that is why people uh look to this and i

1086
00:34:02,870 --> 00:34:00,880
think that

1087
00:34:04,149 --> 00:34:02,880
that is in terms of trying to understand

1088
00:34:06,149 --> 00:34:04,159
these type of things the spiritual

1089
00:34:07,350 --> 00:34:06,159
dimension of human life

1090
00:34:09,589 --> 00:34:07,360
i think part of the scythe you're

1091
00:34:10,710 --> 00:34:09,599
talking about part of the attempt to

1092
00:34:13,669 --> 00:34:10,720
sort of disconnect us

1093
00:34:15,030 --> 00:34:13,679
from our spiritual component of human

1094
00:34:17,109 --> 00:34:15,040
experience and to

1095
00:34:18,310 --> 00:34:17,119
make us feel like what cpus is sloppy

1096
00:34:20,710 --> 00:34:18,320
discs part of that

1097
00:34:21,349 --> 00:34:20,720
is you know to go back to the the topic

1098
00:34:23,190 --> 00:34:21,359
of history

1099
00:34:24,629 --> 00:34:23,200
part of that is the the disconnect from

1100
00:34:26,710 --> 00:34:24,639
a religious tradition from

1101
00:34:28,790 --> 00:34:26,720
all the work and all the effort that's

1102
00:34:29,990 --> 00:34:28,800
been poured into these subjects because

1103
00:34:32,149 --> 00:34:30,000
whatever you want to say about them and

1104
00:34:33,990 --> 00:34:32,159
yeah like there are like flaws there may

1105
00:34:37,190 --> 00:34:34,000
be blind spots in those traditions that

1106
00:34:38,470 --> 00:34:37,200
we now are better equipped to address uh

1107
00:34:41,589 --> 00:34:38,480
lacunae but

1108
00:34:43,270 --> 00:34:41,599
there really is like a great wealth of

1109
00:34:44,710 --> 00:34:43,280
information and the problems that we

1110
00:34:47,190 --> 00:34:44,720
intercept now we try to take

1111
00:34:49,510 --> 00:34:47,200
approaches problem these topics they

1112
00:34:51,430 --> 00:34:49,520
have been encountered before

1113
00:34:52,790 --> 00:34:51,440
but people lack the historical witness

1114
00:34:54,790 --> 00:34:52,800
they lack these the

1115
00:34:56,790 --> 00:34:54,800
appreciation for and this is true of

1116
00:34:58,470 --> 00:34:56,800
religious people as well as people who

1117
00:35:00,470 --> 00:34:58,480
aren't religious you know they're i

1118
00:35:02,230 --> 00:35:00,480
think that there's a general disconnect

1119
00:35:04,390 --> 00:35:02,240
with the history of people's own

1120
00:35:05,750 --> 00:35:04,400
traditions and i think that that is

1121
00:35:07,910 --> 00:35:05,760
something that yeah you definitely

1122
00:35:09,190 --> 00:35:07,920
absolutely can learn about these topics

1123
00:35:10,870 --> 00:35:09,200
because it does belong

1124
00:35:12,390 --> 00:35:10,880
to the same realm like if you're talking

1125
00:35:13,510 --> 00:35:12,400
about state and you know you're talking

1126
00:35:15,349 --> 00:35:13,520
about these being talking about

1127
00:35:16,710 --> 00:35:15,359
gin things like that you know that is

1128
00:35:18,390 --> 00:35:16,720
where a lot of the work out of the

1129
00:35:20,870 --> 00:35:18,400
groundwork has been laid and a lot of

1130
00:35:22,870 --> 00:35:20,880
there's a great continuity between and

1131
00:35:24,630 --> 00:35:22,880
people like aquino you know they go back

1132
00:35:26,790 --> 00:35:24,640
to those ideas you know aquino might go

1133
00:35:28,310 --> 00:35:26,800
back to the nazis or whatever and the

1134
00:35:31,670 --> 00:35:28,320
nazis are going to

1135
00:35:33,589 --> 00:35:31,680
you know runic paradigms as a process by

1136
00:35:36,790 --> 00:35:33,599
theosophy or whatever or like the

1137
00:35:38,069 --> 00:35:36,800
you know something yeah idea of like the

1138
00:35:39,510 --> 00:35:38,079
vedas yeah exactly

1139
00:35:41,190 --> 00:35:39,520
but these occult traditions are

1140
00:35:44,150 --> 00:35:41,200
obviously dealing with

1141
00:35:45,430 --> 00:35:44,160
the their remixes or engagements with

1142
00:35:47,430 --> 00:35:45,440
and oftentimes

1143
00:35:49,349 --> 00:35:47,440
they're imagined as being some kind of

1144
00:35:52,230 --> 00:35:49,359
old long-standing

1145
00:35:53,670 --> 00:35:52,240
subversive underground movement within

1146
00:35:54,150 --> 00:35:53,680
these religious traditions you know

1147
00:35:56,310 --> 00:35:54,160
they're

1148
00:35:58,710 --> 00:35:56,320
to deal with like the much history of

1149
00:36:00,390 --> 00:35:58,720
religious like christianity or islam or

1150
00:36:02,550 --> 00:36:00,400
whatever the other large religions you

1151
00:36:04,150 --> 00:36:02,560
know that is part of like the study of

1152
00:36:05,829 --> 00:36:04,160
these things because they do use the

1153
00:36:08,310 --> 00:36:05,839
same terms like if

1154
00:36:09,109 --> 00:36:08,320
you know demons you know it's the same

1155
00:36:10,870 --> 00:36:09,119
thing as like

1156
00:36:12,470 --> 00:36:10,880
john d summoning demons you know these

1157
00:36:15,109 --> 00:36:12,480
things like relationships right but

1158
00:36:16,069 --> 00:36:15,119
yeah kyle i guess what i'm proposing is

1159
00:36:19,270 --> 00:36:16,079
that it's all

1160
00:36:21,190 --> 00:36:19,280
a head fake it's all unnecessary because

1161
00:36:23,109 --> 00:36:21,200
the the what we're really talking about

1162
00:36:24,710 --> 00:36:23,119
is that there is this extended realm

1163
00:36:27,270 --> 00:36:24,720
that can manifest itself

1164
00:36:29,510 --> 00:36:27,280
in an unlimited number of ways and

1165
00:36:32,069 --> 00:36:29,520
there's a malevolent part of that so

1166
00:36:32,870 --> 00:36:32,079
to identify it and label it this way

1167
00:36:35,349 --> 00:36:32,880
that way

1168
00:36:37,510 --> 00:36:35,359
you know oh it's a baphomet in this case

1169
00:36:40,310 --> 00:36:37,520
no that's lucifer no that's

1170
00:36:41,030 --> 00:36:40,320
you know is just kind of part of the

1171
00:36:43,670 --> 00:36:41,040
problem

1172
00:36:45,910 --> 00:36:43,680
of that need to know that you know kind

1173
00:36:49,030 --> 00:36:45,920
of need to kind of categorize it

1174
00:36:52,069 --> 00:36:49,040
and that spiritual disintermediation

1175
00:36:54,470 --> 00:36:52,079
is not that hard anyone can go within

1176
00:36:55,990 --> 00:36:54,480
anyone can say that what i'm really

1177
00:36:57,829 --> 00:36:56,000
trying to do is connect with my heart

1178
00:36:59,589 --> 00:36:57,839
to love everyone and tell the truth

1179
00:37:01,910 --> 00:36:59,599
we've got some fundamental simply uh

1180
00:37:04,230 --> 00:37:01,920
simple ideas that you know i can read

1181
00:37:06,069 --> 00:37:04,240
one passage from the quran right i can

1182
00:37:07,349 --> 00:37:06,079
throw the rest away all i need to do is

1183
00:37:10,470 --> 00:37:07,359
try and be a good

1184
00:37:10,950 --> 00:37:10,480
person so i would almost i just think we

1185
00:37:14,150 --> 00:37:10,960
need to

1186
00:37:16,390 --> 00:37:14,160
explore the possibility that the exact

1187
00:37:18,310 --> 00:37:16,400
opposite of what you're saying is true

1188
00:37:20,390 --> 00:37:18,320
is that these

1189
00:37:22,550 --> 00:37:20,400
disconnecting from religious traditions

1190
00:37:24,710 --> 00:37:22,560
is exactly what we need to do

1191
00:37:27,109 --> 00:37:24,720
and connecting directly with the

1192
00:37:29,030 --> 00:37:27,119
spirituality if it exists

1193
00:37:31,349 --> 00:37:29,040
is within us and that's why i say you

1194
00:37:32,710 --> 00:37:31,359
know you want to go study the quran

1195
00:37:36,150 --> 00:37:32,720
screw it i'll give you a better place

1196
00:37:38,390 --> 00:37:36,160
it's nderf.org

1197
00:37:40,150 --> 00:37:38,400
you can go search through 3 000 people

1198
00:37:42,230 --> 00:37:40,160
that have had a near-death experience

1199
00:37:44,630 --> 00:37:42,240
and they're all over the board there's

1200
00:37:45,990 --> 00:37:44,640
muslims there's christians there's jews

1201
00:37:48,069 --> 00:37:46,000
there's people are not religious

1202
00:37:50,150 --> 00:37:48,079
and they're having a direct spiritual

1203
00:37:53,950 --> 00:37:50,160
experience that to me

1204
00:37:57,030 --> 00:37:53,960
sounds a lot more unfiltered un

1205
00:37:57,510 --> 00:37:57,040
uncorrupted and it's just there it's

1206
00:38:01,670 --> 00:37:57,520
it's

1207
00:38:03,910 --> 00:38:01,680
nde of course you can do

1208
00:38:06,150 --> 00:38:03,920
all sorts of different practices but the

1209
00:38:06,550 --> 00:38:06,160
point is it's not hard to connect with

1210
00:38:10,470 --> 00:38:06,560
god

1211
00:38:12,870 --> 00:38:10,480
always on they're always home

1212
00:38:14,230 --> 00:38:12,880
you know just go there no it's not sure

1213
00:38:16,390 --> 00:38:14,240
it's not hard to connect with god but

1214
00:38:18,550 --> 00:38:16,400
it's also not hard to connect with with

1215
00:38:19,589 --> 00:38:18,560
satan you know yeah as a kind of maybe

1216
00:38:21,550 --> 00:38:19,599
the the

1217
00:38:24,230 --> 00:38:21,560
the person in the middle here between

1218
00:38:26,550 --> 00:38:24,240
religiosity or not religiosity

1219
00:38:27,589 --> 00:38:26,560
i would just say if we are presupposing

1220
00:38:29,990 --> 00:38:27,599
a field

1221
00:38:31,829 --> 00:38:30,000
of consciousness or you know existence

1222
00:38:32,790 --> 00:38:31,839
or whatever beyond our kind of normative

1223
00:38:34,790 --> 00:38:32,800
senses

1224
00:38:35,910 --> 00:38:34,800
and uh consciousness after death and all

1225
00:38:37,750 --> 00:38:35,920
these things and

1226
00:38:39,510 --> 00:38:37,760
we're positing the existence of a spirit

1227
00:38:42,790 --> 00:38:39,520
world then i think actually

1228
00:38:46,230 --> 00:38:42,800
it's not i don't think it's uh it's too

1229
00:38:48,150 --> 00:38:46,240
outlandish to lay down maybe some

1230
00:38:49,829 --> 00:38:48,160
and maybe this is kind of a very just

1231
00:38:52,310 --> 00:38:49,839
basic practical

1232
00:38:54,150 --> 00:38:52,320
utility that that organized religion

1233
00:38:57,270 --> 00:38:54,160
religious traditions serve

1234
00:38:59,589 --> 00:38:57,280
is to kind of give you like a

1235
00:39:01,349 --> 00:38:59,599
a little bit of like some guide rails if

1236
00:39:03,190 --> 00:39:01,359
you're going to delve into that world

1237
00:39:04,630 --> 00:39:03,200
because if you're doing it completely

1238
00:39:07,589 --> 00:39:04,640
it's just like you know we've done

1239
00:39:08,069 --> 00:39:07,599
not necessarily ouija boards and seances

1240
00:39:10,710 --> 00:39:08,079
and

1241
00:39:11,910 --> 00:39:10,720
teenagers trying to summon the devil you

1242
00:39:13,510 --> 00:39:11,920
know when they're teenagers

1243
00:39:15,349 --> 00:39:13,520
it's not necessary don't try and summon

1244
00:39:17,750 --> 00:39:15,359
the devil just okay

1245
00:39:18,870 --> 00:39:17,760
just go to the light love love everyone

1246
00:39:21,510 --> 00:39:18,880
and you know it's it

1247
00:39:22,870 --> 00:39:21,520
really isn't that complicated and

1248
00:39:25,750 --> 00:39:22,880
religion has

1249
00:39:26,829 --> 00:39:25,760
has orchestrated this idea that it that

1250
00:39:29,109 --> 00:39:26,839
again it's

1251
00:39:30,550 --> 00:39:29,119
intermediary that i need to be the

1252
00:39:32,630 --> 00:39:30,560
intermediary don't you

1253
00:39:34,069 --> 00:39:32,640
dare you know don't go out without your

1254
00:39:35,990 --> 00:39:34,079
mask on don't you go

1255
00:39:37,109 --> 00:39:36,000
it's kind of a version of that it's like

1256
00:39:39,190 --> 00:39:37,119
of course you need

1257
00:39:40,470 --> 00:39:39,200
us to guide you through that realm no

1258
00:39:42,630 --> 00:39:40,480
the it's it's

1259
00:39:44,390 --> 00:39:42,640
all that the evidence and i'm i'm

1260
00:39:46,150 --> 00:39:44,400
stretching the word a little bit

1261
00:39:47,990 --> 00:39:46,160
but again if you look at the science of

1262
00:39:51,230 --> 00:39:48,000
near-death experience and i've just

1263
00:39:53,750 --> 00:39:51,240
interviewed two of the og

1264
00:39:55,990 --> 00:39:53,760
researchers respected university of

1265
00:39:57,910 --> 00:39:56,000
virginia dr bruce grayson and then just

1266
00:39:59,750 --> 00:39:57,920
evan alexander just earlier in the week

1267
00:40:02,630 --> 00:39:59,760
i mean that's just solid science

1268
00:40:04,069 --> 00:40:02,640
the best one of the top resuscitation

1269
00:40:06,150 --> 00:40:04,079
experts in the world

1270
00:40:07,589 --> 00:40:06,160
you know all of them line up and say hey

1271
00:40:10,550 --> 00:40:07,599
these people are dead

1272
00:40:11,190 --> 00:40:10,560
the experiences that they're having post

1273
00:40:12,790 --> 00:40:11,200
death

1274
00:40:14,790 --> 00:40:12,800
are unexplainable inside of our

1275
00:40:16,790 --> 00:40:14,800
neurological model i like

1276
00:40:18,950 --> 00:40:16,800
that base of information right off the

1277
00:40:19,670 --> 00:40:18,960
bat because that mind trickery is out of

1278
00:40:21,589 --> 00:40:19,680
the is out of the

1279
00:40:23,190 --> 00:40:21,599
it's out of the question so when they

1280
00:40:26,710 --> 00:40:23,200
come back consistently

1281
00:40:27,990 --> 00:40:26,720
and say this is that it isn't that

1282
00:40:30,230 --> 00:40:28,000
complicated and they come back

1283
00:40:31,910 --> 00:40:30,240
consistently overwhelmingly and say

1284
00:40:34,230 --> 00:40:31,920
you know if you need if you need a

1285
00:40:37,190 --> 00:40:34,240
religion if you want that if that's your

1286
00:40:39,030 --> 00:40:37,200
thing great but there's no such thing as

1287
00:40:41,670 --> 00:40:39,040
it's just not necessary what comes

1288
00:40:44,309 --> 00:40:41,680
through again and again

1289
00:40:46,309 --> 00:40:44,319
well i feel that the for one i think

1290
00:40:47,990 --> 00:40:46,319
there's always some mediation in terms

1291
00:40:48,870 --> 00:40:48,000
of experience i think that the reason

1292
00:40:51,109 --> 00:40:48,880
why

1293
00:40:52,550 --> 00:40:51,119
we have these traditional accruals of

1294
00:40:53,109 --> 00:40:52,560
knowledge and why there even is a

1295
00:40:56,069 --> 00:40:53,119
practice

1296
00:40:57,589 --> 00:40:56,079
of spiritual techniques or technologies

1297
00:40:59,510 --> 00:40:57,599
of the south things like

1298
00:41:00,870 --> 00:40:59,520
prayer things like meditation like why

1299
00:41:03,030 --> 00:41:00,880
there are traditions of these things and

1300
00:41:04,630 --> 00:41:03,040
why there are alcohol practices as well

1301
00:41:05,990 --> 00:41:04,640
is because people have attempted to do

1302
00:41:07,430 --> 00:41:06,000
these things and of course you know what

1303
00:41:10,309 --> 00:41:07,440
you're saying really is

1304
00:41:11,190 --> 00:41:10,319
also like a well a well tested and old

1305
00:41:13,030 --> 00:41:11,200
idea you know

1306
00:41:14,309 --> 00:41:13,040
for from timer memorial people have been

1307
00:41:16,150 --> 00:41:14,319
like all this

1308
00:41:18,069 --> 00:41:16,160
you know all the customization as a

1309
00:41:19,430 --> 00:41:18,079
crude we always need to like break away

1310
00:41:21,109 --> 00:41:19,440
and you know go back to i mean this is

1311
00:41:22,710 --> 00:41:21,119
for instance in islam you know this is

1312
00:41:25,030 --> 00:41:22,720
an idea as well you know there's the

1313
00:41:26,870 --> 00:41:25,040
idea of getting away from the

1314
00:41:28,470 --> 00:41:26,880
exoteric or even there's an elitist

1315
00:41:29,750 --> 00:41:28,480
component where they're like you know

1316
00:41:31,430 --> 00:41:29,760
the exoteric is for

1317
00:41:33,589 --> 00:41:31,440
people who can't quite get it but you

1318
00:41:34,870 --> 00:41:33,599
know we're at a different level of the

1319
00:41:36,630 --> 00:41:34,880
sheer ad you know we're above

1320
00:41:38,309 --> 00:41:36,640
all these things but you know our

1321
00:41:40,950 --> 00:41:38,319
brotherhood for whatever reason

1322
00:41:42,069 --> 00:41:40,960
or this you know association but i you

1323
00:41:43,589 --> 00:41:42,079
know i think that

1324
00:41:45,030 --> 00:41:43,599
their for instance near those

1325
00:41:45,750 --> 00:41:45,040
experiences you know what would you say

1326
00:41:47,670 --> 00:41:45,760
to

1327
00:41:49,030 --> 00:41:47,680
people who have experienced hell like in

1328
00:41:50,390 --> 00:41:49,040
any other experience or people who what

1329
00:41:51,030 --> 00:41:50,400
about the whole like tricked by the

1330
00:41:52,950 --> 00:41:51,040
light

1331
00:41:54,870 --> 00:41:52,960
narrative you know i was recently

1332
00:41:56,069 --> 00:41:54,880
hearing about someone who had another

1333
00:41:58,550 --> 00:41:56,079
experience that was very

1334
00:41:59,990 --> 00:41:58,560
very positive you know and they had been

1335
00:42:01,910 --> 00:42:00,000
sort of welcomed by

1336
00:42:03,430 --> 00:42:01,920
these alien beings you know sort of in a

1337
00:42:05,349 --> 00:42:03,440
gray alien mold

1338
00:42:06,710 --> 00:42:05,359
you know again like like there is some

1339
00:42:08,390 --> 00:42:06,720
consistency in these in these

1340
00:42:10,309 --> 00:42:08,400
experiences but there's also

1341
00:42:12,069 --> 00:42:10,319
a great deal of divergence you know some

1342
00:42:13,589 --> 00:42:12,079
people see jesus some people see this

1343
00:42:15,430 --> 00:42:13,599
you know but anyway in this experience

1344
00:42:16,230 --> 00:42:15,440
the person had seen these gray aliens

1345
00:42:17,910 --> 00:42:16,240
and it was a

1346
00:42:19,349 --> 00:42:17,920
loving peaceful experience but

1347
00:42:20,950 --> 00:42:19,359
afterwards you know they underwent

1348
00:42:23,270 --> 00:42:20,960
regressive hypnosis

1349
00:42:25,030 --> 00:42:23,280
and they were basically prompted by the

1350
00:42:26,470 --> 00:42:25,040
hypnotist to only experience the truths

1351
00:42:28,710 --> 00:42:26,480
of you know what they had seen

1352
00:42:29,990 --> 00:42:28,720
and then their memory changed it became

1353
00:42:31,430 --> 00:42:30,000
a horrifying experience

1354
00:42:33,109 --> 00:42:31,440
where in fact they were like you know

1355
00:42:35,589 --> 00:42:33,119
violated and say you know

1356
00:42:36,390 --> 00:42:35,599
abused by these same beings you know and

1357
00:42:38,870 --> 00:42:36,400
that they're they

1358
00:42:40,309 --> 00:42:38,880
they came to view it as a screen memory

1359
00:42:41,430 --> 00:42:40,319
of what they had experienced is this you

1360
00:42:42,950 --> 00:42:41,440
know beautiful experience

1361
00:42:44,630 --> 00:42:42,960
they thought oh you know this is a false

1362
00:42:46,470 --> 00:42:44,640
memory that had been implanted

1363
00:42:48,309 --> 00:42:46,480
and the what really happened was what i

1364
00:42:49,829 --> 00:42:48,319
now am remembering now i just feel like

1365
00:42:50,790 --> 00:42:49,839
there's a lot of hairiness there you

1366
00:42:52,150 --> 00:42:50,800
know it could be

1367
00:42:53,910 --> 00:42:52,160
the other way around it could be that in

1368
00:42:55,589 --> 00:42:53,920
the experience of hypnosis this new

1369
00:42:57,270 --> 00:42:55,599
memory came to the fore and the original

1370
00:42:59,430 --> 00:42:57,280
experience was the authentic one

1371
00:43:00,630 --> 00:42:59,440
but there's a lot of muddiness there you

1372
00:43:02,550 --> 00:43:00,640
know it's very hard to

1373
00:43:03,670 --> 00:43:02,560
to really say but that is someone's

1374
00:43:05,670 --> 00:43:03,680
experience of it

1375
00:43:06,790 --> 00:43:05,680
you know so i think that these there's a

1376
00:43:09,829 --> 00:43:06,800
lot of hairiness in the near

1377
00:43:12,150 --> 00:43:09,839
experiences beyond you know people do

1378
00:43:14,069 --> 00:43:12,160
see hell people you know have very

1379
00:43:16,309 --> 00:43:14,079
doctrinaire religious experiences

1380
00:43:17,990 --> 00:43:16,319
you know and some people have and i i do

1381
00:43:20,309 --> 00:43:18,000
i do wonder to what extent

1382
00:43:22,470 --> 00:43:20,319
people like on my website you referenced

1383
00:43:23,910 --> 00:43:22,480
come out of some kind of religious

1384
00:43:26,230 --> 00:43:23,920
upbringing or tradition

1385
00:43:27,030 --> 00:43:26,240
that i'm not saying that it's all a

1386
00:43:29,430 --> 00:43:27,040
projection

1387
00:43:30,470 --> 00:43:29,440
of their imagination and it's fake or

1388
00:43:32,790 --> 00:43:30,480
anything like that

1389
00:43:34,630 --> 00:43:32,800
but that perhaps the imagery the

1390
00:43:35,829 --> 00:43:34,640
symbolic imagery of whatever they're

1391
00:43:36,790 --> 00:43:35,839
seeing because you know we're also

1392
00:43:39,109 --> 00:43:36,800
talking about right

1393
00:43:40,470 --> 00:43:39,119
i i'm presuming that you know that that

1394
00:43:43,829 --> 00:43:40,480
whole thing about dmt

1395
00:43:45,430 --> 00:43:43,839
being released as you die and all that

1396
00:43:48,069 --> 00:43:45,440
i'm not again i'm not saying that that

1397
00:43:49,589 --> 00:43:48,079
means that these experiences are fake or

1398
00:43:52,470 --> 00:43:49,599
just hallucinations

1399
00:43:52,829 --> 00:43:52,480
but i think in general with certainly

1400
00:43:56,470 --> 00:43:52,839
with

1401
00:43:59,589 --> 00:43:56,480
hallucinogen drugs that the shape of the

1402
00:44:01,270 --> 00:43:59,599
of the hallucinations or visions or even

1403
00:44:03,750 --> 00:44:01,280
beings that you might meet

1404
00:44:04,470 --> 00:44:03,760
are sometimes to a certain extent

1405
00:44:06,710 --> 00:44:04,480
mediated

1406
00:44:08,309 --> 00:44:06,720
by your own kind of experience and

1407
00:44:08,870 --> 00:44:08,319
imagination and it kind of would make

1408
00:44:11,349 --> 00:44:08,880
sense

1409
00:44:13,270 --> 00:44:11,359
even if it was authentic that maybe you

1410
00:44:13,589 --> 00:44:13,280
would use symbols that have meaning to

1411
00:44:17,510 --> 00:44:13,599
you

1412
00:44:17,990 --> 00:44:17,520
everybody knows that iconography that

1413
00:44:20,150 --> 00:44:18,000
was

1414
00:44:21,910 --> 00:44:20,160
raised remotely christian you know you

1415
00:44:23,750 --> 00:44:21,920
go up oh there's clouds there's a bright

1416
00:44:25,510 --> 00:44:23,760
light you hear a voice or you

1417
00:44:27,190 --> 00:44:25,520
you're going to hell in a bucket and

1418
00:44:27,750 --> 00:44:27,200
there's flames and it's hot and it's

1419
00:44:29,829 --> 00:44:27,760
scary

1420
00:44:31,030 --> 00:44:29,839
you know and things like that so i mean

1421
00:44:33,589 --> 00:44:31,040
it just it's very hairy

1422
00:44:35,430 --> 00:44:33,599
it's like hard to fully to confidently

1423
00:44:37,510 --> 00:44:35,440
fully disentangle those things

1424
00:44:38,710 --> 00:44:37,520
so there's a lot to kind of process

1425
00:44:41,030 --> 00:44:38,720
there

1426
00:44:42,069 --> 00:44:41,040
i always use the term pre-scientific

1427
00:44:45,030 --> 00:44:42,079
because the

1428
00:44:46,309 --> 00:44:45,040
we are not at a stage where we can start

1429
00:44:48,470 --> 00:44:46,319
calling things scientific

1430
00:44:49,829 --> 00:44:48,480
but to a certain extent you know as soon

1431
00:44:52,470 --> 00:44:49,839
as we get past

1432
00:44:53,109 --> 00:44:52,480
materialistic science as soon as we get

1433
00:44:55,990 --> 00:44:53,119
past

1434
00:44:57,109 --> 00:44:56,000
the double slit experiment of 190

1435
00:44:59,430 --> 00:44:57,119
whatever

1436
00:45:01,270 --> 00:44:59,440
we are post materialism the double slit

1437
00:45:03,510 --> 00:45:01,280
experiment should really be called

1438
00:45:04,470 --> 00:45:03,520
a consciousness experiment because it

1439
00:45:07,270 --> 00:45:04,480
shows that

1440
00:45:08,710 --> 00:45:07,280
consciousness affects the photon pattern

1441
00:45:11,349 --> 00:45:08,720
and that experiment is then

1442
00:45:12,150 --> 00:45:11,359
directly replicated by a guy named dr

1443
00:45:13,829 --> 00:45:12,160
dean rayden

1444
00:45:15,589 --> 00:45:13,839
who says we'll screw it these guys are

1445
00:45:18,069 --> 00:45:15,599
arguing over the philosophy of it

1446
00:45:18,950 --> 00:45:18,079
i'll set it up modern day in the last

1447
00:45:21,270 --> 00:45:18,960
few years

1448
00:45:22,790 --> 00:45:21,280
with a photon beam and a person that i'm

1449
00:45:23,990 --> 00:45:22,800
going to put in there a meditator and

1450
00:45:26,550 --> 00:45:24,000
say okay affect the

1451
00:45:28,790 --> 00:45:26,560
photon beam and he you know gets a six

1452
00:45:29,430 --> 00:45:28,800
sigma result that kind of once and for

1453
00:45:32,069 --> 00:45:29,440
all

1454
00:45:32,550 --> 00:45:32,079
clears up any confusion about whether or

1455
00:45:35,030 --> 00:45:32,560
not

1456
00:45:36,230 --> 00:45:35,040
the observer effect is real i digress

1457
00:45:38,790 --> 00:45:36,240
there to say that

1458
00:45:40,470 --> 00:45:38,800
the consciousness part is really where

1459
00:45:43,030 --> 00:45:40,480
we start and and we have to

1460
00:45:43,990 --> 00:45:43,040
realize that once you get into that then

1461
00:45:46,069 --> 00:45:44,000
materialistic

1462
00:45:47,670 --> 00:45:46,079
science even though science we both

1463
00:45:49,589 --> 00:45:47,680
agree or we all agree science is a

1464
00:45:51,910 --> 00:45:49,599
method not a position statement

1465
00:45:53,510 --> 00:45:51,920
it is still a kind of science as we know

1466
00:45:55,190 --> 00:45:53,520
it is kind of a position statement that

1467
00:45:55,670 --> 00:45:55,200
suggests that we get the world is out

1468
00:45:57,430 --> 00:45:55,680
there

1469
00:45:58,950 --> 00:45:57,440
we can measure the world and we can

1470
00:46:02,069 --> 00:45:58,960
somewhat control the world

1471
00:46:04,390 --> 00:46:02,079
and this post-materialistic science

1472
00:46:05,990 --> 00:46:04,400
suggests well that's not really the case

1473
00:46:06,870 --> 00:46:06,000
and we can kind of shut up and calculate

1474
00:46:08,630 --> 00:46:06,880
and pretend

1475
00:46:10,550 --> 00:46:08,640
like the world is out there and we can

1476
00:46:12,390 --> 00:46:10,560
build all these cool gadgets from it

1477
00:46:14,069 --> 00:46:12,400
but deep down we gotta admit it's not

1478
00:46:15,589 --> 00:46:14,079
really there but switching gears for a

1479
00:46:16,630 --> 00:46:15,599
minute back over to near-death

1480
00:46:19,510 --> 00:46:16,640
experience

1481
00:46:21,109 --> 00:46:19,520
hairy yes but everything is hairy and

1482
00:46:23,270 --> 00:46:21,119
this is part of the process that

1483
00:46:25,430 --> 00:46:23,280
you know we go through and that i admire

1484
00:46:28,309 --> 00:46:25,440
about the way you do it you guys do it

1485
00:46:29,829 --> 00:46:28,319
on subliminal jihad and it's what i try

1486
00:46:33,190 --> 00:46:29,839
and do too but it's like

1487
00:46:35,829 --> 00:46:33,200
like the dmt thing great dmt

1488
00:46:37,510 --> 00:46:35,839
is the actually what's what people are

1489
00:46:40,150 --> 00:46:37,520
experiencing the near-death experience

1490
00:46:41,190 --> 00:46:40,160
great trace that down sam harris is i

1491
00:46:44,230 --> 00:46:41,200
think the guy who said it

1492
00:46:46,630 --> 00:46:44,240
sam harris is full of [\h__\h] he just is

1493
00:46:47,270 --> 00:46:46,640
angry it's been studied it's been

1494
00:46:50,470 --> 00:46:47,280
studied

1495
00:46:52,230 --> 00:46:50,480
so often and so thoroughly

1496
00:46:54,069 --> 00:46:52,240
by near-death experience researchers

1497
00:46:55,430 --> 00:46:54,079
these are phd level people these are

1498
00:46:57,829 --> 00:46:55,440
people publishing

1499
00:46:59,910 --> 00:46:57,839
peer-reviewed journals like the lancet

1500
00:47:02,150 --> 00:46:59,920
the one of the most

1501
00:47:03,430 --> 00:47:02,160
highly respected medical journal in the

1502
00:47:05,030 --> 00:47:03,440
world and they've

1503
00:47:06,550 --> 00:47:05,040
they've looked for dmt in the blood

1504
00:47:09,109 --> 00:47:06,560
samples they've looked for other

1505
00:47:10,950 --> 00:47:09,119
other chemicals not there as a matter of

1506
00:47:12,550 --> 00:47:10,960
fact it kind of shows just

1507
00:47:14,069 --> 00:47:12,560
shows just the opposite but the

1508
00:47:16,470 --> 00:47:14,079
important thing about that

1509
00:47:18,309 --> 00:47:16,480
is sam harris is not only full of [\h__\h]

1510
00:47:22,790 --> 00:47:18,319
but he's actually

1511
00:47:24,870 --> 00:47:22,800
best understood as a dis-info agent

1512
00:47:27,030 --> 00:47:24,880
because if you look at the pushback that

1513
00:47:27,910 --> 00:47:27,040
came when near death experiences hit

1514
00:47:29,990 --> 00:47:27,920
like

1515
00:47:30,950 --> 00:47:30,000
i don't know 10 years ago it really made

1516
00:47:32,790 --> 00:47:30,960
it big with

1517
00:47:34,470 --> 00:47:32,800
this guy dr evan alexander who's a

1518
00:47:35,030 --> 00:47:34,480
harvard neurosurgeon who published this

1519
00:47:37,030 --> 00:47:35,040
book

1520
00:47:38,309 --> 00:47:37,040
proof of heaven because oh yeah i

1521
00:47:39,990 --> 00:47:38,319
remember that yeah

1522
00:47:41,349 --> 00:47:40,000
i just had him out earlier in the week

1523
00:47:43,750 --> 00:47:41,359
he got

1524
00:47:45,109 --> 00:47:43,760
an unbelievable cultural takedown and we

1525
00:47:48,309 --> 00:47:45,119
covered it on this show

1526
00:47:51,190 --> 00:47:48,319
but an unbelievable intentional

1527
00:47:53,109 --> 00:47:51,200
wildly ridiculous you know like sam

1528
00:47:54,790 --> 00:47:53,119
harris said well he's not qualified to

1529
00:47:58,470 --> 00:47:54,800
talk on that because

1530
00:48:01,430 --> 00:47:58,480
he he he's not a neuroscientist

1531
00:48:02,150 --> 00:48:01,440
sam the guy taught at harvard medical

1532
00:48:05,190 --> 00:48:02,160
school

1533
00:48:07,349 --> 00:48:05,200
as a neurosurgeon that is such an absurd

1534
00:48:09,430 --> 00:48:07,359
statement but people you know people

1535
00:48:11,349 --> 00:48:09,440
don't look past that they just go

1536
00:48:12,870 --> 00:48:11,359
oh maybe he's not maybe he's not

1537
00:48:15,990 --> 00:48:12,880
qualified maybe the doc

1538
00:48:16,710 --> 00:48:16,000
anyways it's a cultural takedown i would

1539
00:48:18,870 --> 00:48:16,720
agree with that

1540
00:48:22,309 --> 00:48:18,880
yeah with sam harris yeah we were very

1541
00:48:23,750 --> 00:48:22,319
anti sam harris podcast yes

1542
00:48:25,109 --> 00:48:23,760
yeah and his whole interest in like

1543
00:48:26,150 --> 00:48:25,119
meditation of course he's like one of

1544
00:48:28,390 --> 00:48:26,160
these arch like

1545
00:48:30,549 --> 00:48:28,400
anti-religious polemicists but he's also

1546
00:48:31,510 --> 00:48:30,559
like a new ager kind of i remember his

1547
00:48:33,109 --> 00:48:31,520
remarks like

1548
00:48:35,270 --> 00:48:33,119
people don't understand me because they

1549
00:48:36,309 --> 00:48:35,280
don't really know meditation he's

1550
00:48:37,910 --> 00:48:36,319
probably yeah yeah you know

1551
00:48:39,349 --> 00:48:37,920
jyn are probably telling him what to say

1552
00:48:41,109 --> 00:48:39,359
you know but anyway yeah

1553
00:48:42,549 --> 00:48:41,119
yeah and he's he came out of stanford

1554
00:48:44,230 --> 00:48:42,559
right i don't know that that's

1555
00:48:45,349 --> 00:48:44,240
interesting his mom was a golden girls

1556
00:48:47,030 --> 00:48:45,359
writer i think

1557
00:48:48,470 --> 00:48:47,040
oh yeah i'm sure that sounds like that

1558
00:48:51,270 --> 00:48:48,480
sounds definitely true

1559
00:48:52,230 --> 00:48:51,280
yeah yeah well you know the other thing

1560
00:48:53,430 --> 00:48:52,240
i'm just going to throw on because i

1561
00:48:56,470 --> 00:48:53,440
don't want to do the whole

1562
00:48:57,589 --> 00:48:56,480
nde lecture on you guys but this stuff

1563
00:48:58,950 --> 00:48:57,599
has been done so you

1564
00:49:00,870 --> 00:48:58,960
you know the hellish near death

1565
00:49:01,990 --> 00:49:00,880
experiences i've interviewed a couple of

1566
00:49:03,589 --> 00:49:02,000
people who've

1567
00:49:05,670 --> 00:49:03,599
had those kinds of experiences i

1568
00:49:07,349 --> 00:49:05,680
interviewed pastor howard storm who

1569
00:49:09,430 --> 00:49:07,359
had one of the most horrific hellish

1570
00:49:11,109 --> 00:49:09,440
experiences definitely out there

1571
00:49:12,870 --> 00:49:11,119
under-reported you know people don't

1572
00:49:14,309 --> 00:49:12,880
want to say they went to hell you know

1573
00:49:16,630 --> 00:49:14,319
people then immediately look at him and

1574
00:49:19,670 --> 00:49:16,640
go yeah what did you do to go to hell

1575
00:49:20,470 --> 00:49:19,680
but it it's it's there it has to be

1576
00:49:22,230 --> 00:49:20,480
understood

1577
00:49:23,910 --> 00:49:22,240
in this pre-scientific how can we get

1578
00:49:25,270 --> 00:49:23,920
their way but the other thing i'd throw

1579
00:49:25,510 --> 00:49:25,280
this out at you guys and then i'll leave

1580
00:49:28,950 --> 00:49:25,520
it

1581
00:49:32,710 --> 00:49:28,960
guy

1582
00:49:36,790 --> 00:49:32,720
is dr gregory shushan and what he did

1583
00:49:39,349 --> 00:49:36,800
is a cross-culture cross-time analysis

1584
00:49:40,630 --> 00:49:39,359
of near-death experience and he's an

1585
00:49:43,670 --> 00:49:40,640
academic

1586
00:49:47,109 --> 00:49:43,680
oxford connected guy so

1587
00:49:49,829 --> 00:49:47,119
he has to play it kind of very in a very

1588
00:49:53,270 --> 00:49:49,839
narrow thing and has to be kind of this

1589
00:49:54,549 --> 00:49:53,280
pseudo you know agnostic kind of thing

1590
00:49:56,790 --> 00:49:54,559
but it's it's just clear what he's

1591
00:49:58,069 --> 00:49:56,800
saying is that over and over again and

1592
00:50:01,030 --> 00:49:58,079
all these different

1593
00:50:02,549 --> 00:50:01,040
religious traditions through like go to

1594
00:50:05,910 --> 00:50:02,559
you know

1595
00:50:08,390 --> 00:50:05,920
accounts

1596
00:50:09,990 --> 00:50:08,400
that and then go to native americans and

1597
00:50:10,870 --> 00:50:10,000
go to africans and take all these

1598
00:50:13,030 --> 00:50:10,880
different accounts

1599
00:50:14,549 --> 00:50:13,040
and you see the same thing people are

1600
00:50:16,470 --> 00:50:14,559
having over

1601
00:50:18,230 --> 00:50:16,480
long periods of time having near-death

1602
00:50:21,270 --> 00:50:18,240
experiences in his conclusion

1603
00:50:24,309 --> 00:50:21,280
is that all these religions

1604
00:50:27,430 --> 00:50:24,319
uniformly are based on

1605
00:50:29,270 --> 00:50:27,440
near-death ex i should say that after

1606
00:50:30,790 --> 00:50:29,280
their description of the afterlife of

1607
00:50:31,750 --> 00:50:30,800
all these religions across all these

1608
00:50:34,230 --> 00:50:31,760
cultures

1609
00:50:36,870 --> 00:50:34,240
are based on near-death experiences and

1610
00:50:39,109 --> 00:50:36,880
he even points out many cases where

1611
00:50:40,150 --> 00:50:39,119
they had a certain set of beliefs about

1612
00:50:42,470 --> 00:50:40,160
the afterlife

1613
00:50:44,150 --> 00:50:42,480
and then someone within their community

1614
00:50:44,950 --> 00:50:44,160
had a near-death experience they go oh

1615
00:50:46,470 --> 00:50:44,960
man that

1616
00:50:48,390 --> 00:50:46,480
that's it that sounds like that's

1617
00:50:51,910 --> 00:50:48,400
definitely it we believe you

1618
00:50:54,710 --> 00:50:51,920
and their beliefs changed based on that

1619
00:50:56,870 --> 00:50:54,720
so there's a lot there's a lot there and

1620
00:50:59,349 --> 00:50:56,880
i'm not saying that's terra firma

1621
00:51:00,790 --> 00:50:59,359
but i'm saying we're never going to

1622
00:51:03,829 --> 00:51:00,800
understand

1623
00:51:04,790 --> 00:51:03,839
michael aquino unless we're unless we're

1624
00:51:07,910 --> 00:51:04,800
willing to

1625
00:51:08,870 --> 00:51:07,920
take a couple of steps in that direction

1626
00:51:11,190 --> 00:51:08,880
you know so

1627
00:51:13,349 --> 00:51:11,200
i agree yeah absolutely yeah you have to

1628
00:51:15,750 --> 00:51:13,359
you have to presuppose something

1629
00:51:17,349 --> 00:51:15,760
out there kind of beyond on the other

1630
00:51:18,870 --> 00:51:17,359
side whatever you want to call it to be

1631
00:51:19,510 --> 00:51:18,880
able to wrap your head i think around

1632
00:51:22,870 --> 00:51:19,520
somebody

1633
00:51:24,069 --> 00:51:22,880
like aquino or these type of mystery

1634
00:51:26,470 --> 00:51:24,079
cults or whatnot

1635
00:51:27,829 --> 00:51:26,480
you know and just because i just because

1636
00:51:29,270 --> 00:51:27,839
i follow one religious tradition doesn't

1637
00:51:30,950 --> 00:51:29,280
mean that i believe that

1638
00:51:32,150 --> 00:51:30,960
there's no knowledge of god like in

1639
00:51:33,270 --> 00:51:32,160
other cultures you know i think that

1640
00:51:34,309 --> 00:51:33,280
there really is something

1641
00:51:35,910 --> 00:51:34,319
yeah again i believe there's an

1642
00:51:36,470 --> 00:51:35,920
ontological reality to this stuff and so

1643
00:51:39,750 --> 00:51:36,480
that people

1644
00:51:40,390 --> 00:51:39,760
are describing similar things you know

1645
00:51:42,630 --> 00:51:40,400
the

1646
00:51:43,589 --> 00:51:42,640
god that is you know uh mazda or

1647
00:51:45,670 --> 00:51:43,599
whatever the

1648
00:51:46,630 --> 00:51:45,680
you know high god of zoroastrianism like

1649
00:51:48,710 --> 00:51:46,640
that is

1650
00:51:50,230 --> 00:51:48,720
a way of talking about allah you know

1651
00:51:52,309 --> 00:51:50,240
it's the same thing like in

1652
00:51:54,069 --> 00:51:52,319
hinduism like all these avatars and all

1653
00:51:56,470 --> 00:51:54,079
this proliferation of things you know

1654
00:51:57,910 --> 00:51:56,480
maybe krishna at one time was a prophet

1655
00:52:00,069 --> 00:51:57,920
or something you know these are

1656
00:52:01,430 --> 00:52:00,079
representations or a way of interacting

1657
00:52:02,630 --> 00:52:01,440
with something i mean really like the

1658
00:52:04,069 --> 00:52:02,640
whole idea of

1659
00:52:05,670 --> 00:52:04,079
perennialism or the idea there's

1660
00:52:06,630 --> 00:52:05,680
something to all religions like the

1661
00:52:08,549 --> 00:52:06,640
notion of

1662
00:52:09,829 --> 00:52:08,559
abrahamic religions or of people of the

1663
00:52:11,510 --> 00:52:09,839
book you know or people who have a

1664
00:52:13,190 --> 00:52:11,520
semblance of a book like that's an old

1665
00:52:15,190 --> 00:52:13,200
islamic concept you know in a way we

1666
00:52:16,190 --> 00:52:15,200
have a it's left to thank for that idea

1667
00:52:17,829 --> 00:52:16,200
of this sort of

1668
00:52:19,430 --> 00:52:17,839
intercompatibility this is something

1669
00:52:21,349 --> 00:52:19,440
that was recognized early on

1670
00:52:23,510 --> 00:52:21,359
in islamic history that there's uh you

1671
00:52:26,069 --> 00:52:23,520
know an access to this that other

1672
00:52:28,230 --> 00:52:26,079
religions have as well and there there's

1673
00:52:28,630 --> 00:52:28,240
a degradations of religious truth and

1674
00:52:30,470 --> 00:52:28,640
that

1675
00:52:32,069 --> 00:52:30,480
you know of course in various traditions

1676
00:52:35,030 --> 00:52:32,079
within islam you know there's the idea

1677
00:52:36,630 --> 00:52:35,040
that our there's a sort of the ideas of

1678
00:52:38,230 --> 00:52:36,640
heaven and hell for instance like al

1679
00:52:40,230 --> 00:52:38,240
gosaly who's like a very

1680
00:52:42,390 --> 00:52:40,240
famous uh muslim philosopher you know

1681
00:52:43,670 --> 00:52:42,400
very influential muslim theologian

1682
00:52:45,109 --> 00:52:43,680
who you know i don't know what your

1683
00:52:46,790 --> 00:52:45,119
listening trip is like he just gets bad

1684
00:52:47,349 --> 00:52:46,800
rap in some circles but you know he said

1685
00:52:49,670 --> 00:52:47,359
that

1686
00:52:51,510 --> 00:52:49,680
those who pray because they fear hell

1687
00:52:53,430 --> 00:52:51,520
you know or because they desire

1688
00:52:55,349 --> 00:52:53,440
whoris or you know the garden like they

1689
00:52:57,589 --> 00:52:55,359
all get that but those of us who

1690
00:52:59,430 --> 00:52:57,599
pray because we want to you know witness

1691
00:53:00,230 --> 00:52:59,440
the face of god like we'll see the face

1692
00:53:03,349 --> 00:53:00,240
of god

1693
00:53:05,750 --> 00:53:03,359
and that will be more beautiful

1694
00:53:07,670 --> 00:53:05,760
than uh hoary by the same order of

1695
00:53:08,230 --> 00:53:07,680
magnitude that a hoary is more beautiful

1696
00:53:09,910 --> 00:53:08,240
than

1697
00:53:11,109 --> 00:53:09,920
uh you know a woman here on earth you

1698
00:53:13,190 --> 00:53:11,119
know which of course is like very

1699
00:53:15,030 --> 00:53:13,200
misogynistic typical you know medieval

1700
00:53:17,270 --> 00:53:15,040
person but you get the point like that

1701
00:53:18,870 --> 00:53:17,280
there is an idea of a gradations of

1702
00:53:20,950 --> 00:53:18,880
experience like even within

1703
00:53:22,150 --> 00:53:20,960
traditions themselves so yeah i

1704
00:53:23,829 --> 00:53:22,160
definitely think that

1705
00:53:25,990 --> 00:53:23,839
you know there is these are attempts to

1706
00:53:26,470 --> 00:53:26,000
describe something that is simply out

1707
00:53:28,470 --> 00:53:26,480
there and

1708
00:53:30,069 --> 00:53:28,480
you know in terms of aquino yeah like

1709
00:53:31,670 --> 00:53:30,079
you know he has a very different take on

1710
00:53:33,349 --> 00:53:31,680
it where he's like embracing

1711
00:53:35,109 --> 00:53:33,359
the evil dimension although he may not

1712
00:53:36,470 --> 00:53:35,119
necessarily see it that way you know he

1713
00:53:38,230 --> 00:53:36,480
has his own kind of

1714
00:53:40,470 --> 00:53:38,240
flexible morality but he's dealing in

1715
00:53:42,069 --> 00:53:40,480
the same sphere with the same concepts

1716
00:53:44,549 --> 00:53:42,079
like he understands this

1717
00:53:45,190 --> 00:53:44,559
basic language that is compatible among

1718
00:53:47,270 --> 00:53:45,200
these different

1719
00:53:49,270 --> 00:53:47,280
i don't think he is he's dealing in a

1720
00:53:51,910 --> 00:53:49,280
realm one of deception

1721
00:53:52,470 --> 00:53:51,920
which is an intersection with your show

1722
00:53:55,430 --> 00:53:52,480
in that

1723
00:53:56,230 --> 00:53:55,440
i can say or do anything because do what

1724
00:53:59,670 --> 00:53:56,240
thou wilt

1725
00:54:02,230 --> 00:53:59,680
is the is the ultimate truth you know

1726
00:54:03,270 --> 00:54:02,240
and i think that there's a a contrary

1727
00:54:04,870 --> 00:54:03,280
point of view that i'm

1728
00:54:06,630 --> 00:54:04,880
pointing to and that i think

1729
00:54:08,790 --> 00:54:06,640
fundamentally you are too that says

1730
00:54:09,990 --> 00:54:08,800
no there is a moral imperative to do

1731
00:54:12,470 --> 00:54:10,000
good and not and and

1732
00:54:13,109 --> 00:54:12,480
not do bad and to do bad and to be

1733
00:54:16,069 --> 00:54:13,119
deceptive

1734
00:54:17,510 --> 00:54:16,079
is out of align with what for lack of a

1735
00:54:19,750 --> 00:54:17,520
better term

1736
00:54:20,870 --> 00:54:19,760
you know god's spirit the light whatever

1737
00:54:22,549 --> 00:54:20,880
it's out of sync

1738
00:54:24,069 --> 00:54:22,559
it's ignorance what the buddhists call

1739
00:54:27,670 --> 00:54:24,079
ignorance of

1740
00:54:29,589 --> 00:54:27,680
the true what's really going on

1741
00:54:31,190 --> 00:54:29,599
yes yeah i know i agree i agree with

1742
00:54:32,069 --> 00:54:31,200
that yeah i think that what i mean to

1743
00:54:34,549 --> 00:54:32,079
say is that he's

1744
00:54:35,270 --> 00:54:34,559
using the same terms he's acting within

1745
00:54:37,829 --> 00:54:35,280
the same

1746
00:54:39,589 --> 00:54:37,839
basic language like invoking satan and

1747
00:54:40,870 --> 00:54:39,599
aligning himself with that

1748
00:54:42,150 --> 00:54:40,880
he's saying that he's an opposition

1749
00:54:43,349 --> 00:54:42,160
doesn't think but that is still you know

1750
00:54:45,349 --> 00:54:43,359
with the same

1751
00:54:46,710 --> 00:54:45,359
like conceptual universe you know he's

1752
00:54:48,549 --> 00:54:46,720
not saying that like something

1753
00:54:50,390 --> 00:54:48,559
completely turned on its head like

1754
00:54:52,069 --> 00:54:50,400
yeah he uses the seat and like maybe he

1755
00:54:53,270 --> 00:54:52,079
uses these languages these terms and

1756
00:54:55,670 --> 00:54:53,280
deceitful ways

1757
00:54:56,870 --> 00:54:55,680
but if you approach it like you can

1758
00:54:59,030 --> 00:54:56,880
understand it

1759
00:55:00,390 --> 00:54:59,040
through this these these languages these

1760
00:55:02,710 --> 00:55:00,400
concepts you know and he

1761
00:55:03,670 --> 00:55:02,720
uses them himself you know yeah like

1762
00:55:05,109 --> 00:55:03,680
something that actually does

1763
00:55:06,470 --> 00:55:05,119
i infiltrated the temple of said you

1764
00:55:07,109 --> 00:55:06,480
know i've read like their internal

1765
00:55:09,829 --> 00:55:07,119
documents

1766
00:55:10,470 --> 00:55:09,839
you know i love that yeah i love that so

1767
00:55:12,309 --> 00:55:10,480
yeah like

1768
00:55:13,750 --> 00:55:12,319
and a lot of it is i mean they have

1769
00:55:15,589 --> 00:55:13,760
their own reading lists and things like

1770
00:55:16,950 --> 00:55:15,599
that and they'll refer you to

1771
00:55:18,870 --> 00:55:16,960
you know what they encourage their

1772
00:55:20,870 --> 00:55:18,880
members to read like our things you know

1773
00:55:22,309 --> 00:55:20,880
they really read things written by

1774
00:55:23,990 --> 00:55:22,319
christian theologians like something

1775
00:55:25,750 --> 00:55:24,000
that we talked about on our episode

1776
00:55:26,390 --> 00:55:25,760
about dog man that will be out soon you

1777
00:55:27,750 --> 00:55:26,400
know the

1778
00:55:29,190 --> 00:55:27,760
the book of werewolves and they have a

1779
00:55:30,309 --> 00:55:29,200
whole reading list about werewolves of

1780
00:55:32,789 --> 00:55:30,319
course a topic

1781
00:55:33,589 --> 00:55:32,799
that's of great interest to satanists in

1782
00:55:35,750 --> 00:55:33,599
general but

1783
00:55:37,910 --> 00:55:35,760
especially to those who have a sympathy

1784
00:55:39,190 --> 00:55:37,920
with the ss or whatever you know so

1785
00:55:41,190 --> 00:55:39,200
you know he would recommend these

1786
00:55:42,950 --> 00:55:41,200
religious texts about werewolves so

1787
00:55:44,549 --> 00:55:42,960
these things the whole idea of we're

1788
00:55:47,109 --> 00:55:44,559
going to take as our emblem

1789
00:55:48,230 --> 00:55:47,119
the symbol of evil in the christian

1790
00:55:49,270 --> 00:55:48,240
tradition you know we're going to

1791
00:55:51,270 --> 00:55:49,280
commune with

1792
00:55:52,789 --> 00:55:51,280
the the devil you know that is something

1793
00:55:54,710 --> 00:55:52,799
that is based on

1794
00:55:55,910 --> 00:55:54,720
it's the inversion playbook it's

1795
00:55:58,069 --> 00:55:55,920
sabatian frankish

1796
00:56:00,069 --> 00:55:58,079
you know redemption through sin right

1797
00:56:02,230 --> 00:56:00,079
it's yeah let's do the

1798
00:56:04,069 --> 00:56:02,240
because hey i can look right in my

1799
00:56:05,750 --> 00:56:04,079
scriptures and it says

1800
00:56:07,190 --> 00:56:05,760
he's going to come the redemption will

1801
00:56:10,069 --> 00:56:07,200
come when

1802
00:56:11,109 --> 00:56:10,079
everyone is good or everyone is bad well

1803
00:56:12,870 --> 00:56:11,119
we've tried everyone

1804
00:56:14,630 --> 00:56:12,880
everyone being good that ain't working

1805
00:56:16,069 --> 00:56:14,640
let's all just be bad

1806
00:56:17,309 --> 00:56:16,079
because that'll bring about the second

1807
00:56:18,470 --> 00:56:17,319
coming you know yeah it's like

1808
00:56:19,990 --> 00:56:18,480
accelerationism

1809
00:56:22,069 --> 00:56:20,000
for you know it's like a spiritual

1810
00:56:23,829 --> 00:56:22,079
accelerationism but it's always an

1811
00:56:25,030 --> 00:56:23,839
inversion it's always a deceptive

1812
00:56:27,670 --> 00:56:25,040
inversion it's a

1813
00:56:28,950 --> 00:56:27,680
and it's such a low-level simple play

1814
00:56:32,150 --> 00:56:28,960
but it does seem to

1815
00:56:33,829 --> 00:56:32,160
attract a lot of people it does and i

1816
00:56:35,589 --> 00:56:33,839
see it seeping into the groundwater of

1817
00:56:37,190 --> 00:56:35,599
our culture increasingly which does

1818
00:56:39,349 --> 00:56:37,200
alarm me and you know i was raised

1819
00:56:40,950 --> 00:56:39,359
catholic but i don't i wouldn't

1820
00:56:43,109 --> 00:56:40,960
i would say my my sort of relationship

1821
00:56:43,589 --> 00:56:43,119
with is like ambivalent and ambiguous or

1822
00:56:46,789 --> 00:56:43,599
whatever

1823
00:56:49,030 --> 00:56:46,799
but i would say i'm i'm like theistic

1824
00:56:49,910 --> 00:56:49,040
so let's say i'm not an atheist but i

1825
00:56:51,589 --> 00:56:49,920
noticed that

1826
00:56:54,230 --> 00:56:51,599
and it's interesting you brought up sam

1827
00:56:55,589 --> 00:56:54,240
harris because he embodied this kind of

1828
00:56:57,510 --> 00:56:55,599
you know we make fun of it a lot on the

1829
00:56:58,069 --> 00:56:57,520
podcast people like bill maher and sam

1830
00:56:59,349 --> 00:56:58,079
harris

1831
00:57:01,589 --> 00:56:59,359
you know talking about people being

1832
00:57:03,349 --> 00:57:01,599
religious and how you know flying

1833
00:57:05,589 --> 00:57:03,359
spaghetti monsters but it was all

1834
00:57:06,470 --> 00:57:05,599
based on this kind of scientistic kind

1835
00:57:08,630 --> 00:57:06,480
of thinking

1836
00:57:09,670 --> 00:57:08,640
that was very just anti basically

1837
00:57:11,589 --> 00:57:09,680
denying

1838
00:57:13,109 --> 00:57:11,599
spirit the spiritual universe that that

1839
00:57:15,270 --> 00:57:13,119
we've been discussing and it just

1840
00:57:16,950 --> 00:57:15,280
doesn't exist that's ridiculous shut up

1841
00:57:20,150 --> 00:57:16,960
you're dumb you're superstitious

1842
00:57:21,750 --> 00:57:20,160
but now i think as that has kind of i

1843
00:57:22,950 --> 00:57:21,760
feel like that's petering out a little

1844
00:57:25,510 --> 00:57:22,960
bit in the culture

1845
00:57:27,030 --> 00:57:25,520
that kind of scientistic atheism or it's

1846
00:57:29,670 --> 00:57:27,040
been having a rough ride because

1847
00:57:30,870 --> 00:57:29,680
things are so insane and so chaotic and

1848
00:57:34,230 --> 00:57:30,880
there's so much

1849
00:57:36,549 --> 00:57:34,240
madness going on and maybe people are

1850
00:57:38,309 --> 00:57:36,559
in some way a little more drawn to some

1851
00:57:39,510 --> 00:57:38,319
kind of spiritual explanation but now

1852
00:57:41,349 --> 00:57:39,520
you're seeing things where

1853
00:57:43,030 --> 00:57:41,359
like the amount of satanic imagery and

1854
00:57:44,309 --> 00:57:43,040
like pop culture we talk about a lot in

1855
00:57:48,069 --> 00:57:44,319
like music videos

1856
00:57:50,390 --> 00:57:48,079
like demonic mk ultra satanic type

1857
00:57:51,670 --> 00:57:50,400
imagery you know or like twerking on

1858
00:57:54,390 --> 00:57:51,680
satan literally

1859
00:57:54,950 --> 00:57:54,400
is now being held up as like this really

1860
00:57:56,950 --> 00:57:54,960
cool

1861
00:57:58,789 --> 00:57:56,960
just like even just just kind of a bland

1862
00:58:01,510 --> 00:57:58,799
like progressive cool thing

1863
00:58:03,510 --> 00:58:01,520
but it's not very different in my mind

1864
00:58:05,750 --> 00:58:03,520
from something like the satanic temple

1865
00:58:07,109 --> 00:58:05,760
or the church of satan embracing the

1866
00:58:09,670 --> 00:58:07,119
sigil of baphomet

1867
00:58:10,470 --> 00:58:09,680
which is the like quintessential

1868
00:58:12,549 --> 00:58:10,480
embodiment

1869
00:58:14,390 --> 00:58:12,559
you know symbol of evil in the christian

1870
00:58:16,230 --> 00:58:14,400
tradition which is the kind of the

1871
00:58:18,710 --> 00:58:16,240
dominant majority tradition

1872
00:58:20,150 --> 00:58:18,720
in you know western society so it's

1873
00:58:20,630 --> 00:58:20,160
there's a sense of you know what you're

1874
00:58:22,150 --> 00:58:20,640
doing

1875
00:58:23,750 --> 00:58:22,160
you know what that represents and

1876
00:58:26,150 --> 00:58:23,760
regardless of whether or not

1877
00:58:28,150 --> 00:58:26,160
even if you even if you accept a totally

1878
00:58:30,789 --> 00:58:28,160
atheistic view of the world

1879
00:58:31,349 --> 00:58:30,799
that still represents something that is

1880
00:58:34,630 --> 00:58:31,359
mo

1881
00:58:37,910 --> 00:58:34,640
represents

1882
00:58:39,190 --> 00:58:37,920
evil values you know the person who is

1883
00:58:41,349 --> 00:58:39,200
the opposite of

1884
00:58:42,789 --> 00:58:41,359
jesus christ who again it's like even if

1885
00:58:45,030 --> 00:58:42,799
you don't if you just

1886
00:58:46,789 --> 00:58:45,040
think it's a fairy tale jesus

1887
00:58:48,630 --> 00:58:46,799
exemplified a lot of virtues that like

1888
00:58:51,190 --> 00:58:48,640
the majority of humanity would think

1889
00:58:52,630 --> 00:58:51,200
are positive virtues to model whereas

1890
00:58:55,349 --> 00:58:52,640
satan is all about deception

1891
00:58:57,430 --> 00:58:55,359
lies power greed everything else and you

1892
00:58:58,950 --> 00:58:57,440
know this is an america on top of that

1893
00:59:00,789 --> 00:58:58,960
a place where we already have a bit of a

1894
00:59:04,470 --> 00:59:00,799
spiritual problem with greed

1895
00:59:06,230 --> 00:59:04,480
power genocide imperialism etc

1896
00:59:08,309 --> 00:59:06,240
and business and just getting more and

1897
00:59:09,990 --> 00:59:08,319
more and more you know down to

1898
00:59:11,990 --> 00:59:10,000
you know it's like a root of our kind of

1899
00:59:15,030 --> 00:59:12,000
capitalistic protestant work

1900
00:59:17,430 --> 00:59:15,040
ethic spirituality so you know throwing

1901
00:59:19,589 --> 00:59:17,440
satan into the mix to turbo boost

1902
00:59:21,589 --> 00:59:19,599
our consumerist to hyper materialist

1903
00:59:24,230 --> 00:59:21,599
kind of empty secular culture

1904
00:59:25,670 --> 00:59:24,240
seems you know it's like i i stop and

1905
00:59:26,470 --> 00:59:25,680
take notice when that happens and i

1906
00:59:28,390 --> 00:59:26,480
think it's a play

1907
00:59:30,069 --> 00:59:28,400
yeah yeah it's a play and i think it has

1908
00:59:32,069 --> 00:59:30,079
an impact even if people

1909
00:59:33,829 --> 00:59:32,079
you know what you hear nowadays is like

1910
00:59:34,630 --> 00:59:33,839
well you know the satanic temple just

1911
00:59:36,390 --> 00:59:34,640
says

1912
00:59:37,829 --> 00:59:36,400
that you know they're just atheists

1913
00:59:38,630 --> 00:59:37,839
they're just doing it to rile up the

1914
00:59:39,750 --> 00:59:38,640
christians

1915
00:59:41,829 --> 00:59:39,760
but you know i just kind of

1916
00:59:43,829 --> 00:59:41,839
fundamentally don't accept that

1917
00:59:45,430 --> 00:59:43,839
as like an explanation i mean sure maybe

1918
00:59:46,069 --> 00:59:45,440
if that if that's what you think it is

1919
00:59:48,789 --> 00:59:46,079
but

1920
00:59:49,190 --> 00:59:48,799
it you're still using you're weaponizing

1921
00:59:51,670 --> 00:59:49,200
uh

1922
00:59:53,510 --> 00:59:51,680
a symbol that most people believe

1923
00:59:54,069 --> 00:59:53,520
represents evil it's like same thing

1924
00:59:56,950 --> 00:59:54,079
with like

1925
00:59:58,230 --> 00:59:56,960
flying a swastika or an ss banner you

1926
00:59:58,789 --> 00:59:58,240
know just say oh i just think it looks

1927
01:00:00,630 --> 00:59:58,799
cool

1928
01:00:03,270 --> 01:00:00,640
it doesn't really mean i'm a nazi you

1929
01:00:03,829 --> 01:00:03,280
know i'm doing it ironically you know

1930
01:00:05,510 --> 01:00:03,839
yeah and

1931
01:00:06,950 --> 01:00:05,520
i think at this part of the whole you

1932
01:00:08,470 --> 01:00:06,960
know the old cliche about like the

1933
01:00:09,349 --> 01:00:08,480
greatest trick devil ever played is in

1934
01:00:11,589 --> 01:00:09,359
some ways true

1935
01:00:12,549 --> 01:00:11,599
you know it speaks to i think the larger

1936
01:00:15,270 --> 01:00:12,559
point of like the

1937
01:00:16,549 --> 01:00:15,280
illiteracy about symbols and the you

1938
01:00:18,710 --> 01:00:16,559
know illiteracy about

1939
01:00:19,750 --> 01:00:18,720
different understandings of these

1940
01:00:22,069 --> 01:00:19,760
figures of

1941
01:00:23,270 --> 01:00:22,079
religious ideas and also of history and

1942
01:00:24,630 --> 01:00:23,280
i think that you know for instance

1943
01:00:26,630 --> 01:00:24,640
you mentioned it's working on the devil

1944
01:00:28,230 --> 01:00:26,640
you know this is a huge uh flashpoint in

1945
01:00:31,589 --> 01:00:28,240
our culture a huge controversy

1946
01:00:32,309 --> 01:00:31,599
over uh wilnos x's video with the devil

1947
01:00:34,069 --> 01:00:32,319
in it and

1948
01:00:35,589 --> 01:00:34,079
you know this is a huge thing where

1949
01:00:38,789 --> 01:00:35,599
people were upset at

1950
01:00:40,390 --> 01:00:38,799
uh the suggestion of uh giving satan a

1951
01:00:42,390 --> 01:00:40,400
lap dance and things like that and you

1952
01:00:43,910 --> 01:00:42,400
know other people were saying like how

1953
01:00:46,470 --> 01:00:43,920
you know can you be upset you know this

1954
01:00:48,230 --> 01:00:46,480
is all symbology this is all metaphor

1955
01:00:49,829 --> 01:00:48,240
and something a common point that people

1956
01:00:50,470 --> 01:00:49,839
made of these view the video was that

1957
01:00:51,990 --> 01:00:50,480
well you know

1958
01:00:54,069 --> 01:00:52,000
look at the ending you know little

1959
01:00:55,990 --> 01:00:54,079
nossacks actually he's using his

1960
01:00:57,910 --> 01:00:56,000
sexuality to seduce the devil but in the

1961
01:00:59,750 --> 01:00:57,920
end he kills the devil and then he puts

1962
01:01:01,589 --> 01:00:59,760
the devil's horns on himself so really

1963
01:01:03,349 --> 01:01:01,599
he's killing satan so isn't that

1964
01:01:04,630 --> 01:01:03,359
good and it's like well you know if you

1965
01:01:06,470 --> 01:01:04,640
think about what these people

1966
01:01:08,309 --> 01:01:06,480
like michael aquino for instance what

1967
01:01:09,589 --> 01:01:08,319
they really believe like that actually

1968
01:01:11,349 --> 01:01:09,599
matches up perfectly

1969
01:01:12,870 --> 01:01:11,359
with their ideas about their how their

1970
01:01:15,190 --> 01:01:12,880
relationship with these entities work

1971
01:01:16,470 --> 01:01:15,200
you know they of course no one is ever

1972
01:01:18,230 --> 01:01:16,480
going to do

1973
01:01:20,150 --> 01:01:18,240
like no one's ever going to sign on to

1974
01:01:21,750 --> 01:01:20,160
like the christian idea of

1975
01:01:23,430 --> 01:01:21,760
a deal with the devil like that people

1976
01:01:25,190 --> 01:01:23,440
will warn you about you know like

1977
01:01:26,630 --> 01:01:25,200
what the devil came to you and said

1978
01:01:28,309 --> 01:01:26,640
you're gonna be my slave

1979
01:01:29,990 --> 01:01:28,319
and you're gonna do my will and then

1980
01:01:32,309 --> 01:01:30,000
you're gonna burn forever you know

1981
01:01:33,910 --> 01:01:32,319
no one would take that deal probably you

1982
01:01:34,870 --> 01:01:33,920
know it's because they think that they

1983
01:01:36,470 --> 01:01:34,880
have a loophole

1984
01:01:38,069 --> 01:01:36,480
they always have a way out you know and

1985
01:01:38,870 --> 01:01:38,079
oftentimes it's because they can ascend

1986
01:01:40,950 --> 01:01:38,880
themselves

1987
01:01:42,870 --> 01:01:40,960
they can become you know the dark prince

1988
01:01:45,030 --> 01:01:42,880
or you know the god unto themselves

1989
01:01:46,470 --> 01:01:45,040
that's exactly what sethianism teaches

1990
01:01:48,630 --> 01:01:46,480
like which is

1991
01:01:49,910 --> 01:01:48,640
you know there's a vulgar more

1992
01:01:51,430 --> 01:01:49,920
secularized version of that

1993
01:01:53,270 --> 01:01:51,440
in the church of satan and an even

1994
01:01:54,870 --> 01:01:53,280
further more secularized version of that

1995
01:01:56,950 --> 01:01:54,880
and the the satanic temple

1996
01:01:57,990 --> 01:01:56,960
where you have the idea that there you

1997
01:01:59,750 --> 01:01:58,000
know you

1998
01:02:00,950 --> 01:01:59,760
can yourself it's all about the the

1999
01:02:02,150 --> 01:02:00,960
aggrandizement of itself you know the

2000
01:02:04,950 --> 01:02:02,160
ascension of the self

2001
01:02:06,390 --> 01:02:04,960
the godhood of the becoming a god yes

2002
01:02:08,470 --> 01:02:06,400
exactly they think that they're they're

2003
01:02:10,789 --> 01:02:08,480
not going to be accountable because

2004
01:02:11,829 --> 01:02:10,799
they will you know find a loophole that

2005
01:02:14,870 --> 01:02:11,839
they will become

2006
01:02:17,430 --> 01:02:14,880
yeah

2007
01:02:18,470 --> 01:02:17,440
and we're on the verge of this kind of

2008
01:02:20,630 --> 01:02:18,480
new frontier where

2009
01:02:21,510 --> 01:02:20,640
i think even people like sam harris have

2010
01:02:24,230 --> 01:02:21,520
talked about

2011
01:02:25,750 --> 01:02:24,240
you know the the the rumblings around

2012
01:02:27,990 --> 01:02:25,760
transhumanism

2013
01:02:30,069 --> 01:02:28,000
are have been picking up for you know a

2014
01:02:32,470 --> 01:02:30,079
couple decades now and clearly

2015
01:02:34,230 --> 01:02:32,480
these psychos like like jeffrey epstein

2016
01:02:36,950 --> 01:02:34,240
and his best friend bill gates

2017
01:02:38,069 --> 01:02:36,960
are pretty interested in life extension

2018
01:02:40,470 --> 01:02:38,079
technologies

2019
01:02:41,910 --> 01:02:40,480
okay full pause because you guys dropped

2020
01:02:45,270 --> 01:02:41,920
a truth bomb

2021
01:02:46,950 --> 01:02:45,280
on me and uh we got it jeffrey epstein

2022
01:02:47,589 --> 01:02:46,960
what's that really all about jeffrey

2023
01:02:51,029 --> 01:02:47,599
epstein

2024
01:02:52,950 --> 01:02:51,039
gifted children um

2025
01:02:54,390 --> 01:02:52,960
we're still looking into that that was

2026
01:02:57,990 --> 01:02:54,400
uh that was a lead

2027
01:03:00,789 --> 01:02:58,000
that our our buddy jimmy falun gong

2028
01:03:01,510 --> 01:03:00,799
discovered and yeah we we talked about

2029
01:03:03,029 --> 01:03:01,520
that

2030
01:03:05,029 --> 01:03:03,039
with him i think we're still digging

2031
01:03:06,309 --> 01:03:05,039
into it because we're still finding more

2032
01:03:08,309 --> 01:03:06,319
and more

2033
01:03:09,750 --> 01:03:08,319
people that may be big yeah an

2034
01:03:10,150 --> 01:03:09,760
interesting very interesting angle on

2035
01:03:12,789 --> 01:03:10,160
this

2036
01:03:14,789 --> 01:03:12,799
is jeffrey epstein's life as a gifted

2037
01:03:15,910 --> 01:03:14,799
child you know and jimmy what he did was

2038
01:03:17,029 --> 01:03:15,920
draw like a very interesting connection

2039
01:03:19,750 --> 01:03:17,039
between him

2040
01:03:21,270 --> 01:03:19,760
and figures like jack sarfati and

2041
01:03:22,470 --> 01:03:21,280
whitley streiber who you

2042
01:03:24,470 --> 01:03:22,480
actually had in your show i mean what

2043
01:03:26,630 --> 01:03:24,480
was driver's actual life you know it's a

2044
01:03:26,950 --> 01:03:26,640
bit muddy like one doesn't quite know

2045
01:03:28,630 --> 01:03:26,960
but

2046
01:03:30,309 --> 01:03:28,640
the theme in his putatively

2047
01:03:31,190 --> 01:03:30,319
autobiographical work of like a secret

2048
01:03:34,150 --> 01:03:31,200
school

2049
01:03:36,069 --> 01:03:34,160
involving communion with the et entities

2050
01:03:37,109 --> 01:03:36,079
and the description by jack sarfati and

2051
01:03:39,430 --> 01:03:37,119
daniel sheehan

2052
01:03:41,029 --> 01:03:39,440
of getting this call on the god phone

2053
01:03:42,470 --> 01:03:41,039
and what we did in our episode

2054
01:03:44,870 --> 01:03:42,480
dealing with this topic with jimmy was

2055
01:03:46,950 --> 01:03:44,880
we kind of brought this idea through

2056
01:03:48,069 --> 01:03:46,960
the discussion of this sort of idea of

2057
01:03:50,470 --> 01:03:48,079
gifted children

2058
01:03:51,510 --> 01:03:50,480
jeffrey epstein's past and you know

2059
01:03:53,750 --> 01:03:51,520
being involved in

2060
01:03:55,510 --> 01:03:53,760
gifted children programs and walter

2061
01:03:56,789 --> 01:03:55,520
breen you know is another big figure in

2062
01:03:57,589 --> 01:03:56,799
the development of those programs in the

2063
01:03:59,829 --> 01:03:57,599
united states

2064
01:04:01,109 --> 01:03:59,839
and walter greene who is a convicted

2065
01:04:02,710 --> 01:04:01,119
pedophile at the same time

2066
01:04:04,309 --> 01:04:02,720
yeah and he's found writer the

2067
01:04:08,390 --> 01:04:04,319
co-founder of

2068
01:04:10,230 --> 01:04:08,400
child too has the look

2069
01:04:11,510 --> 01:04:10,240
hey but you guys mentioned uh strieber

2070
01:04:14,630 --> 01:04:11,520
whitley strieber

2071
01:04:15,510 --> 01:04:14,640
did did you know about his gifted

2072
01:04:17,750 --> 01:04:15,520
children

2073
01:04:19,670 --> 01:04:17,760
participation that mklc program when he

2074
01:04:21,510 --> 01:04:19,680
was like seven or nine years old

2075
01:04:23,589 --> 01:04:21,520
yeah well in his book he describes the

2076
01:04:25,990 --> 01:04:23,599
secret school you know in fact it's more

2077
01:04:27,750 --> 01:04:26,000
according to him you know it's uh it's

2078
01:04:29,670 --> 01:04:27,760
more than that you know it's not only

2079
01:04:31,670 --> 01:04:29,680
that he was part of like a government

2080
01:04:33,190 --> 01:04:31,680
secret school program is that he you

2081
01:04:34,630 --> 01:04:33,200
know of course later in life williams

2082
01:04:36,950 --> 01:04:34,640
reaper maintains that he

2083
01:04:38,069 --> 01:04:36,960
was a victim of alien abduction

2084
01:04:40,309 --> 01:04:38,079
repeatedly

2085
01:04:41,829 --> 01:04:40,319
and but hold on because i interviewed

2086
01:04:43,990 --> 01:04:41,839
him i interviewed him on this and we

2087
01:04:45,670 --> 01:04:44,000
specifically talked about

2088
01:04:47,589 --> 01:04:45,680
because i was very interested in the mk

2089
01:04:49,349 --> 01:04:47,599
ultra program and you guys are so up to

2090
01:04:51,109 --> 01:04:49,359
speed on this and we can go there

2091
01:04:53,109 --> 01:04:51,119
and i want to go there but people don't

2092
01:04:53,990 --> 01:04:53,119
understand how extensive it was you know

2093
01:04:57,190 --> 01:04:54,000
when people go

2094
01:04:59,270 --> 01:04:57,200
ted kaczynski una bummer ha ha ha no

2095
01:05:01,109 --> 01:04:59,280
that's just the you that's an another

2096
01:05:03,750 --> 01:05:01,119
gifted child if you think about it

2097
01:05:04,630 --> 01:05:03,760
exactly she went there at 16 so i don't

2098
01:05:07,190 --> 01:05:04,640
think it was sad

2099
01:05:08,710 --> 01:05:07,200
that he got picked to go into that study

2100
01:05:10,470 --> 01:05:08,720
so i'm totally down with what you guys

2101
01:05:10,870 --> 01:05:10,480
were saying and henry murray you know is

2102
01:05:13,430 --> 01:05:10,880
the

2103
01:05:15,510 --> 01:05:13,440
doctor henry murray at harvard you know

2104
01:05:16,950 --> 01:05:15,520
picks out a guy like ted kaczynski it is

2105
01:05:18,950 --> 01:05:16,960
there's absolutely

2106
01:05:20,470 --> 01:05:18,960
completely solid evidence that they're

2107
01:05:21,510 --> 01:05:20,480
doing this all over the place and

2108
01:05:22,789 --> 01:05:21,520
they're doing it and then i interviewed

2109
01:05:24,230 --> 01:05:22,799
another guy and i won't even mention his

2110
01:05:25,990 --> 01:05:24,240
name but he's a podcaster

2111
01:05:27,670 --> 01:05:26,000
and he tells me you know i'm telling the

2112
01:05:29,430 --> 01:05:27,680
story about whitley street and goes

2113
01:05:31,109 --> 01:05:29,440
yeah when i was in kindergarten i was a

2114
01:05:33,270 --> 01:05:31,119
gifted chopper i'm like oh whoa

2115
01:05:34,230 --> 01:05:33,280
stop tell me he goes yeah it's the

2116
01:05:38,549 --> 01:05:34,240
weirdest thing

2117
01:05:41,349 --> 01:05:38,559
room and all day we just memorized

2118
01:05:41,829 --> 01:05:41,359
cards we just tried to memorize these

2119
01:05:44,069 --> 01:05:41,839
cards

2120
01:05:45,349 --> 01:05:44,079
and it's like we will never know the

2121
01:05:47,910 --> 01:05:45,359
extent to which

2122
01:05:48,870 --> 01:05:47,920
these guys did these programs some of

2123
01:05:52,309 --> 01:05:48,880
which sound

2124
01:05:53,910 --> 01:05:52,319
incredibly benign like that one and the

2125
01:05:55,349 --> 01:05:53,920
one that whitley was in and you know i

2126
01:05:56,630 --> 01:05:55,359
probably did have to do with psychic

2127
01:05:58,150 --> 01:05:56,640
abilities that probably

2128
01:05:59,829 --> 01:05:58,160
by memorizing card's event that they

2129
01:06:00,950 --> 01:05:59,839
tried to predict the shape on cards

2130
01:06:04,470 --> 01:06:00,960
start seeing them

2131
01:06:05,670 --> 01:06:04,480
you know i think maybe

2132
01:06:07,670 --> 01:06:05,680
and you could get there right you could

2133
01:06:08,950 --> 01:06:07,680
get there in a whole bunch of different

2134
01:06:10,710 --> 01:06:08,960
ways college right you could just have

2135
01:06:11,190 --> 01:06:10,720
people memorize information and that

2136
01:06:13,029 --> 01:06:11,200
could be

2137
01:06:14,710 --> 01:06:13,039
a pre-screening to whether they go to

2138
01:06:15,510 --> 01:06:14,720
the next thing but back to whitley

2139
01:06:17,029 --> 01:06:15,520
because

2140
01:06:19,190 --> 01:06:17,039
when i interviewed whitley i asked him

2141
01:06:22,549 --> 01:06:19,200
specifically about this

2142
01:06:23,190 --> 01:06:22,559
and you can hear his voice and you hear

2143
01:06:27,430 --> 01:06:23,200
him

2144
01:06:30,230 --> 01:06:27,440
struggled with it a great deal

2145
01:06:30,950 --> 01:06:30,240
in terms of trying to resolve it back in

2146
01:06:33,670 --> 01:06:30,960
his life

2147
01:06:34,470 --> 01:06:33,680
but the full story is he's like i don't

2148
01:06:37,029 --> 01:06:34,480
know

2149
01:06:39,270 --> 01:06:37,039
nine years old and his dad is in

2150
01:06:42,549 --> 01:06:39,280
military intelligence by the way

2151
01:06:44,789 --> 01:06:42,559
and they come knocking on the door and

2152
01:06:46,870 --> 01:06:44,799
uh they say hey you know got a special

2153
01:06:48,950 --> 01:06:46,880
program for gifted children

2154
01:06:50,069 --> 01:06:48,960
it's down at the air force base here in

2155
01:06:53,349 --> 01:06:50,079
san antonio

2156
01:06:55,510 --> 01:06:53,359
and whitley like barely remembers it

2157
01:06:56,470 --> 01:06:55,520
but he remembers going into faraday cage

2158
01:06:58,630 --> 01:06:56,480
he remembers them

2159
01:07:00,390 --> 01:06:58,640
mutilating animals and doing this other

2160
01:07:02,390 --> 01:07:00,400
stuff he doesn't remember all of it but

2161
01:07:04,789 --> 01:07:02,400
what he remembers are a couple things

2162
01:07:06,789 --> 01:07:04,799
after that mom insisted that he get

2163
01:07:10,390 --> 01:07:06,799
dressed up in a sunday morning to go

2164
01:07:13,430 --> 01:07:10,400
in his sunday best to go to school

2165
01:07:15,829 --> 01:07:13,440
and he was like went up on the roof to

2166
01:07:18,549 --> 01:07:15,839
try and hide to get away from these guys

2167
01:07:19,029 --> 01:07:18,559
and he suggested the only way he got out

2168
01:07:21,270 --> 01:07:19,039
of it

2169
01:07:22,710 --> 01:07:21,280
is that he got quote unquote sick and

2170
01:07:24,390 --> 01:07:22,720
got sent to the hospital

2171
01:07:25,910 --> 01:07:24,400
probably you know your body reacts to

2172
01:07:26,470 --> 01:07:25,920
that goes i gotta get it find a way out

2173
01:07:28,710 --> 01:07:26,480
of here

2174
01:07:29,510 --> 01:07:28,720
he goes to the hospital and his mother

2175
01:07:30,710 --> 01:07:29,520
comes there

2176
01:07:32,470 --> 01:07:30,720
and they eventually pull him out of the

2177
01:07:34,309 --> 01:07:32,480
program but he says in trying to

2178
01:07:37,430 --> 01:07:34,319
recollect what really happened

2179
01:07:39,990 --> 01:07:37,440
because i i th whitley

2180
01:07:40,950 --> 01:07:40,000
is trying to understand this i get the

2181
01:07:42,870 --> 01:07:40,960
sense that he is an

2182
01:07:44,950 --> 01:07:42,880
honest broker he just has this

2183
01:07:47,910 --> 01:07:44,960
fragmented shattered

2184
01:07:49,910 --> 01:07:47,920
disassociative identity created memory

2185
01:07:53,670 --> 01:07:49,920
of what's going on but he said look

2186
01:07:56,390 --> 01:07:53,680
the [\h__\h] kid across the street i know

2187
01:07:57,910 --> 01:07:56,400
he was there with me when that kid came

2188
01:08:00,630 --> 01:07:57,920
back he was shattered

2189
01:08:02,150 --> 01:08:00,640
he never left the house he was 50 years

2190
01:08:02,950 --> 01:08:02,160
old he had never left the house

2191
01:08:05,109 --> 01:08:02,960
virtually

2192
01:08:06,789 --> 01:08:05,119
and died you know in his room and i

2193
01:08:08,950 --> 01:08:06,799
talked to another kid

2194
01:08:09,990 --> 01:08:08,960
down the street who they put him in they

2195
01:08:11,190 --> 01:08:10,000
went to put him in the program and the

2196
01:08:12,150 --> 01:08:11,200
parents said hey wait a minute this

2197
01:08:14,230 --> 01:08:12,160
doesn't sound right

2198
01:08:15,910 --> 01:08:14,240
we're not doing it but he was able to

2199
01:08:16,950 --> 01:08:15,920
confirm through talking to some of his

2200
01:08:18,789 --> 01:08:16,960
other childhood friends

2201
01:08:20,870 --> 01:08:18,799
that it wasn't made up that there

2202
01:08:24,550 --> 01:08:20,880
definitely was such a program

2203
01:08:27,189 --> 01:08:24,560
and you know it's don't look so good

2204
01:08:28,709 --> 01:08:27,199
yeah no it's a really kind of it i think

2205
01:08:29,590 --> 01:08:28,719
it's almost kind of a conceptual

2206
01:08:31,910 --> 01:08:29,600
breakthrough

2207
01:08:33,669 --> 01:08:31,920
across the board with a lot of

2208
01:08:34,950 --> 01:08:33,679
conspiracy topics that we've covered

2209
01:08:37,430 --> 01:08:34,960
this idea

2210
01:08:39,189 --> 01:08:37,440
like we ne i just never really thought

2211
01:08:40,550 --> 01:08:39,199
about the gifted children program even

2212
01:08:42,709 --> 01:08:40,560
though we had talked all about

2213
01:08:44,309 --> 01:08:42,719
you know the rumored project monarch and

2214
01:08:45,749 --> 01:08:44,319
you know the fritz springmeier stuff

2215
01:08:47,430 --> 01:08:45,759
about oh you gotta

2216
01:08:49,189 --> 01:08:47,440
do these terrible things to like small

2217
01:08:51,349 --> 01:08:49,199
children before they're six to

2218
01:08:53,110 --> 01:08:51,359
induce you know dissociative identity

2219
01:08:54,390 --> 01:08:53,120
disorder we talked about hypnotism and

2220
01:08:56,149 --> 01:08:54,400
george ester brooks

2221
01:08:57,829 --> 01:08:56,159
talking about the importance and milton

2222
01:08:59,990 --> 01:08:57,839
erickson talking about the importance of

2223
01:09:01,829 --> 01:09:00,000
how you can hypnotically induce multiple

2224
01:09:02,870 --> 01:09:01,839
personalities but then the gifted child

2225
01:09:04,550 --> 01:09:02,880
thing was like

2226
01:09:05,990 --> 01:09:04,560
oh my god and then when i started

2227
01:09:08,789 --> 01:09:06,000
thinking back in it we had already

2228
01:09:09,430 --> 01:09:08,799
done some digging into other characters

2229
01:09:11,510 --> 01:09:09,440
that

2230
01:09:13,030 --> 01:09:11,520
actually do have this you know it's not

2231
01:09:14,789 --> 01:09:13,040
just uh sarfati and

2232
01:09:16,789 --> 01:09:14,799
epc and we're still you know nailing it

2233
01:09:19,669 --> 01:09:16,799
down but michael aquino for example

2234
01:09:21,030 --> 01:09:19,679
i don't know if he is absolutely a child

2235
01:09:22,709 --> 01:09:21,040
but his mother was

2236
01:09:24,390 --> 01:09:22,719
tell that story there was an incredible

2237
01:09:26,309 --> 01:09:24,400
tell that story guys

2238
01:09:28,149 --> 01:09:26,319
tell me that story about about his

2239
01:09:29,269 --> 01:09:28,159
mother and about his grandfather and

2240
01:09:30,870 --> 01:09:29,279
about his whole family

2241
01:09:33,030 --> 01:09:30,880
because it's another one of these it

2242
01:09:34,709 --> 01:09:33,040
does the total flip and you're like

2243
01:09:36,870 --> 01:09:34,719
oh my god i hate this guy i hate this

2244
01:09:37,749 --> 01:09:36,880
guy oh my god i feel so sorry for this

2245
01:09:39,510 --> 01:09:37,759
guy

2246
01:09:40,789 --> 01:09:39,520
yeah you realize that he had to have

2247
01:09:43,910 --> 01:09:40,799
been born into

2248
01:09:45,510 --> 01:09:43,920
something weird because okay so just uh

2249
01:09:47,349 --> 01:09:45,520
this is stuff that we dug up when we

2250
01:09:49,590 --> 01:09:47,359
were researching our very first

2251
01:09:50,950 --> 01:09:49,600
aquino episodes uh like number three and

2252
01:09:53,590 --> 01:09:50,960
four and

2253
01:09:54,310 --> 01:09:53,600
what i was able to find mostly through

2254
01:09:56,229 --> 01:09:54,320
amazon

2255
01:09:58,390 --> 01:09:56,239
book descriptions that aquino himself

2256
01:10:00,870 --> 01:09:58,400
had published

2257
01:10:02,229 --> 01:10:00,880
including a book of his mom's poetry and

2258
01:10:04,229 --> 01:10:02,239
a bunch of other stuff

2259
01:10:05,830 --> 01:10:04,239
yeah pegasus and feathers yeah yeah

2260
01:10:08,149 --> 01:10:05,840
pegasus and pin feathers i i

2261
01:10:11,110 --> 01:10:08,159
discovered that you know his mother

2262
01:10:13,350 --> 01:10:11,120
betty who went by betty ford aquino

2263
01:10:15,510 --> 01:10:13,360
was a kind of a girl from a well-off fan

2264
01:10:17,110 --> 01:10:15,520
a well-off san francisco family and i

2265
01:10:19,030 --> 01:10:17,120
also i grew up in the san francisco bay

2266
01:10:19,430 --> 01:10:19,040
area so all this like hits close like i

2267
01:10:52,229 --> 01:10:19,440
i

2268
01:10:55,030 --> 01:10:52,239
program

2269
01:10:55,910 --> 01:10:55,040
and it was run by a psychologist named

2270
01:10:58,870 --> 01:10:55,920
dr louis

2271
01:11:00,950 --> 01:10:58,880
turman who was an extremely prominent

2272
01:11:02,070 --> 01:11:00,960
psychologist in the early 20th century

2273
01:11:03,270 --> 01:11:02,080
also one of the most prominent

2274
01:11:05,270 --> 01:11:03,280
eugenicists

2275
01:11:06,950 --> 01:11:05,280
in the united states at that time like a

2276
01:11:09,590 --> 01:11:06,960
fervent eugenicist

2277
01:11:11,430 --> 01:11:09,600
and supported uh california's like

2278
01:11:13,590 --> 01:11:11,440
forced sterilization program

2279
01:11:14,790 --> 01:11:13,600
and all of his work with him yeah and

2280
01:11:15,430 --> 01:11:14,800
all of his work with the children was

2281
01:11:17,590 --> 01:11:15,440
inflected

2282
01:11:18,709 --> 01:11:17,600
heavily by his interests and and this

2283
01:11:20,310 --> 01:11:18,719
and trying to understand you know which

2284
01:11:20,630 --> 01:11:20,320
races are more intelligent things like

2285
01:11:23,030 --> 01:11:20,640
that

2286
01:11:24,390 --> 01:11:23,040
yeah exactly exactly so she you know she

2287
01:11:26,149 --> 01:11:24,400
went through this program then

2288
01:11:28,390 --> 01:11:26,159
kind of like ted gazinski you know i

2289
01:11:29,189 --> 01:11:28,400
think at 15 or 16 she enrolled in

2290
01:11:31,669 --> 01:11:29,199
stanford

2291
01:11:33,669 --> 01:11:31,679
and then graduated and then after she

2292
01:11:36,790 --> 01:11:33,679
left stanford i believe this was in

2293
01:11:37,510 --> 01:11:36,800
the early 1930s she spent a number of

2294
01:11:40,550 --> 01:11:37,520
years

2295
01:11:41,110 --> 01:11:40,560
in nazi germany studying sculpture with

2296
01:11:44,390 --> 01:11:41,120
a famous

2297
01:11:47,750 --> 01:11:44,400
uh sculptor named george colba and

2298
01:11:49,350 --> 01:11:47,760
aquino in some google groups threads or

2299
01:11:51,430 --> 01:11:49,360
used net threads back in the day told

2300
01:11:53,110 --> 01:11:51,440
some very weird stories about how his

2301
01:11:55,830 --> 01:11:53,120
grandmother and his mother were

2302
01:11:56,870 --> 01:11:55,840
in a in a restaurant in berlin one time

2303
01:11:58,790 --> 01:11:56,880
in the 30s and

2304
01:12:00,950 --> 01:11:58,800
in the early 30s and there was there was

2305
01:12:02,070 --> 01:12:00,960
a boisterous group of snappily dressed

2306
01:12:03,990 --> 01:12:02,080
uniformed men

2307
01:12:05,430 --> 01:12:04,000
you know causing a ruckus and his

2308
01:12:07,430 --> 01:12:05,440
grandmother who is a

2309
01:12:08,950 --> 01:12:07,440
very you know san francisco grand dom

2310
01:12:10,709 --> 01:12:08,960
got up and told them

2311
01:12:12,709 --> 01:12:10,719
to cut it out and the head of the table

2312
01:12:14,870 --> 01:12:12,719
you know apologized profusely and

2313
01:12:16,550 --> 01:12:14,880
turned out it was adopt hitler and you

2314
01:12:19,030 --> 01:12:16,560
know he just yeah that was and

2315
01:12:21,030 --> 01:12:19,040
but grandma didn't recognize him because

2316
01:12:24,229 --> 01:12:21,040
she she found politics vulgar

2317
01:12:25,430 --> 01:12:24,239
yeah he i i still i believe that his

2318
01:12:28,550 --> 01:12:25,440
grandmother's name was

2319
01:12:30,070 --> 01:12:28,560
was her maiden name was sophie johnson

2320
01:12:32,070 --> 01:12:30,080
now there was a sophie johnson

2321
01:12:33,590 --> 01:12:32,080
vanderbilt from the 19th century

2322
01:12:35,830 --> 01:12:33,600
i don't know if she was named kind of in

2323
01:12:39,669 --> 01:12:35,840
reference to that or i don't know

2324
01:12:41,830 --> 01:12:39,679
her aquino called her a a grand dom

2325
01:12:42,709 --> 01:12:41,840
of the stanford crocker era of san

2326
01:12:45,590 --> 01:12:42,719
francisco

2327
01:12:46,149 --> 01:12:45,600
but yet i can't find i can't trace her

2328
01:12:48,709 --> 01:12:46,159
family

2329
01:12:50,630 --> 01:12:48,719
but anyways so you know she was in nazi

2330
01:12:51,990 --> 01:12:50,640
germany throughout most of the 1930s

2331
01:12:53,910 --> 01:12:52,000
there were some rumors that she had

2332
01:12:56,149 --> 01:12:53,920
an affair with an ss officer at one

2333
01:12:58,790 --> 01:12:56,159
point in 1934

2334
01:13:00,229 --> 01:12:58,800
yeah equino's mother and then uh the

2335
01:13:01,990 --> 01:13:00,239
other thing i discovered well there's

2336
01:13:03,030 --> 01:13:02,000
two things about his grandfather who was

2337
01:13:05,590 --> 01:13:03,040
a surgeon

2338
01:13:06,149 --> 01:13:05,600
a prominent surgeon dr campbell ford

2339
01:13:11,350 --> 01:13:06,159
that

2340
01:13:13,830 --> 01:13:11,360
you know on newspapers.com

2341
01:13:16,310 --> 01:13:13,840
the first one was from i believe it was

2342
01:13:18,630 --> 01:13:16,320
from the san francisco examiner in 1894

2343
01:13:20,149 --> 01:13:18,640
and it was an article about how a

2344
01:13:21,830 --> 01:13:20,159
prominent doctor

2345
01:13:23,590 --> 01:13:21,840
dr campbell ford michael aquino's

2346
01:13:25,430 --> 01:13:23,600
grandfather had been arrested in san

2347
01:13:28,709 --> 01:13:25,440
francisco for

2348
01:13:30,229 --> 01:13:28,719
allegedly attempting to steal a baby

2349
01:13:32,790 --> 01:13:30,239
like he was running around with a baby

2350
01:13:34,709 --> 01:13:32,800
that wasn't his yeah and

2351
01:13:36,070 --> 01:13:34,719
that's normal really weird yeah yeah it

2352
01:13:37,189 --> 01:13:36,080
was like so busy because especially

2353
01:13:38,149 --> 01:13:37,199
because then if you know about the

2354
01:13:40,310 --> 01:13:38,159
presidio

2355
01:13:41,990 --> 01:13:40,320
story was that like 100 years later yeah

2356
01:13:43,189 --> 01:13:42,000
his story was like a random person just

2357
01:13:44,950 --> 01:13:43,199
like drop the baby

2358
01:13:46,630 --> 01:13:44,960
in his lap or something right like he

2359
01:13:47,030 --> 01:13:46,640
was just like someone came up to me and

2360
01:13:53,110 --> 01:13:47,040
like

2361
01:13:54,470 --> 01:13:53,120
gave him a baby maybe there's an

2362
01:13:56,070 --> 01:13:54,480
implication that it was sort of

2363
01:13:57,510 --> 01:13:56,080
somebody had a baby out of wedlock and

2364
01:13:58,550 --> 01:13:57,520
then they just they showed they just

2365
01:14:00,950 --> 01:13:58,560
gave it to him

2366
01:14:01,669 --> 01:14:00,960
for some reason to go and give it to a

2367
01:14:04,149 --> 01:14:01,679
foundling

2368
01:14:05,590 --> 01:14:04,159
place or an orphanage but he had hired

2369
01:14:07,750 --> 01:14:05,600
like a a stagecoach

2370
01:14:09,669 --> 01:14:07,760
you know a buggy you know a cabbie

2371
01:14:11,270 --> 01:14:09,679
whatever to like ride him around san

2372
01:14:13,189 --> 01:14:11,280
francisco with this baby

2373
01:14:14,870 --> 01:14:13,199
and the cabbies story contradicted the

2374
01:14:15,350 --> 01:14:14,880
grandfather's story campbell ford's

2375
01:14:16,790 --> 01:14:15,360
story

2376
01:14:18,470 --> 01:14:16,800
you know campbell ford said that he was

2377
01:14:19,270 --> 01:14:18,480
attending to the birth in a saloon of

2378
01:14:21,590 --> 01:14:19,280
this baby

2379
01:14:23,510 --> 01:14:21,600
and then like they gave him the baby and

2380
01:14:25,910 --> 01:14:23,520
he went and tried to find it a home

2381
01:14:27,350 --> 01:14:25,920
but the the cabbie said that he just

2382
01:14:28,709 --> 01:14:27,360
hired him they pulled up through a

2383
01:14:30,550 --> 01:14:28,719
saloon somebody walked out and just

2384
01:14:31,430 --> 01:14:30,560
handed him a baby and then he's like go

2385
01:14:32,870 --> 01:14:31,440
around town

2386
01:14:34,709 --> 01:14:32,880
and started going to different places

2387
01:14:35,270 --> 01:14:34,719
around town apparently try i don't know

2388
01:14:37,189 --> 01:14:35,280
it's like he was

2389
01:14:39,430 --> 01:14:37,199
trying to sell it or something it was

2390
01:14:40,790 --> 01:14:39,440
very very bizarre and

2391
01:14:43,590 --> 01:14:40,800
that was like on the front page of the

2392
01:14:45,189 --> 01:14:43,600
san francisco examiner in 1894

2393
01:14:47,350 --> 01:14:45,199
and then the other big thing about

2394
01:14:48,229 --> 01:14:47,360
campbell ford who was i think in three

2395
01:14:50,950 --> 01:14:48,239
different frame

2396
01:14:52,550 --> 01:14:50,960
free masonic lodges by the way including

2397
01:14:56,229 --> 01:14:52,560
knights templar commandery

2398
01:15:00,390 --> 01:14:56,239
the mount moriah lodge number 44. he

2399
01:15:02,870 --> 01:15:00,400
died in 1934 by slitting his own throat

2400
01:15:04,950 --> 01:15:02,880
with a straight razor and some

2401
01:15:07,110 --> 01:15:04,960
newspapers it was reported actually in a

2402
01:15:09,350 --> 01:15:07,120
bunch of different newspapers

2403
01:15:11,510 --> 01:15:09,360
that some of them implied that it was

2404
01:15:14,709 --> 01:15:11,520
kind of an accident while he was shaving

2405
01:15:16,950 --> 01:15:14,719
other ones said a presumed suicide

2406
01:15:17,910 --> 01:15:16,960
and then other ones noted ironically

2407
01:15:20,630 --> 01:15:17,920
that mr

2408
01:15:21,750 --> 01:15:20,640
dr ford was somewhat famous in the

2409
01:15:24,470 --> 01:15:21,760
medical community

2410
01:15:25,110 --> 01:15:24,480
for inventing a type of stoo a type of

2411
01:15:27,110 --> 01:15:25,120
suture

2412
01:15:28,790 --> 01:15:27,120
known as the forward stitch so there's

2413
01:15:30,070 --> 01:15:28,800
almost i think as khalid pointed out in

2414
01:15:33,510 --> 01:15:30,080
that episode there's like a

2415
01:15:35,030 --> 01:15:33,520
weird like satanic irony of the doctor

2416
01:15:37,350 --> 01:15:35,040
who invented this famous

2417
01:15:39,030 --> 01:15:37,360
stitch ends up slicing his own throat

2418
01:15:41,910 --> 01:15:39,040
open and by the way in the

2419
01:15:43,270 --> 01:15:41,920
the big spooky house on leavenworth

2420
01:15:44,950 --> 01:15:43,280
street in san francisco

2421
01:15:47,590 --> 01:15:44,960
that michael aquino would end up living

2422
01:15:50,310 --> 01:15:47,600
in in the 1980s that he both grew up in

2423
01:15:51,750 --> 01:15:50,320
and ended up inheriting until he died in

2424
01:15:54,870 --> 01:15:51,760
2019 and also that

2425
01:15:56,630 --> 01:15:54,880
that is the house where the children who

2426
01:15:57,350 --> 01:15:56,640
accused him of presidio said they were

2427
01:15:58,950 --> 01:15:57,360
taken to

2428
01:16:00,229 --> 01:15:58,960
which had all these weird rooms that's

2429
01:16:01,510 --> 01:16:00,239
where they you know that's where the

2430
01:16:03,910 --> 01:16:01,520
police raided his home

2431
01:16:07,110 --> 01:16:03,920
was that exact same home where his

2432
01:16:09,510 --> 01:16:07,120
grandfather slid his own throat in 1934.

2433
01:16:11,030 --> 01:16:09,520
so and dmitry just to add maybe you want

2434
01:16:13,189 --> 01:16:11,040
to add to that i mean

2435
01:16:15,030 --> 01:16:13,199
we have to say you know alleged and this

2436
01:16:16,950 --> 01:16:15,040
and that but anyone who just does a kind

2437
01:16:18,070 --> 01:16:16,960
of cursory examination of the evidence

2438
01:16:20,630 --> 01:16:18,080
against him

2439
01:16:21,510 --> 01:16:20,640
for uh pedophilia and his wife of being

2440
01:16:24,470 --> 01:16:21,520
part of it

2441
01:16:25,270 --> 01:16:24,480
it's it's so overwhelming and i mean

2442
01:16:27,990 --> 01:16:25,280
it's just

2443
01:16:29,350 --> 01:16:28,000
it's overwhelming evidence i mean he did

2444
01:16:30,790 --> 01:16:29,360
all that stuff

2445
01:16:32,149 --> 01:16:30,800
i would agree yeah i would agree and

2446
01:16:33,430 --> 01:16:32,159
then the fact that the daycare center

2447
01:16:35,830 --> 01:16:33,440
the presidio was

2448
01:16:37,669 --> 01:16:35,840
burnt down twice or there were two

2449
01:16:39,830 --> 01:16:37,679
attempts to burn it down

2450
01:16:41,350 --> 01:16:39,840
while this kind of process was uh while

2451
01:16:42,709 --> 01:16:41,360
this trial process was

2452
01:16:44,070 --> 01:16:42,719
was playing itself out and then the

2453
01:16:45,669 --> 01:16:44,080
second time i believe that when they

2454
01:16:48,229 --> 01:16:45,679
successfully burned it down was on the

2455
01:16:50,950 --> 01:16:48,239
night of the autumnal equinox

2456
01:16:52,229 --> 01:16:50,960
so you know i mean kind of interesting

2457
01:16:53,990 --> 01:16:52,239
and then you know all these things were

2458
01:16:57,189 --> 01:16:54,000
dropped but also the army

2459
01:16:57,910 --> 01:16:57,199
refused i remember finding a kind of a

2460
01:16:59,270 --> 01:16:57,920
lawsuit

2461
01:17:01,669 --> 01:16:59,280
judgment or something i think it was

2462
01:17:02,709 --> 01:17:01,679
like from the army's you know legal

2463
01:17:06,550 --> 01:17:02,719
division

2464
01:17:09,030 --> 01:17:06,560
basically refusing aquinos with requests

2465
01:17:10,870 --> 01:17:09,040
to completely expunge the presidio stuff

2466
01:17:12,630 --> 01:17:10,880
from his record which is interesting so

2467
01:17:13,830 --> 01:17:12,640
the us army itself

2468
01:17:15,990 --> 01:17:13,840
kind of said you know they ended up

2469
01:17:17,990 --> 01:17:16,000
saying that well oh there's not

2470
01:17:19,910 --> 01:17:18,000
evidence curt lieutenant colonel aquino

2471
01:17:21,350 --> 01:17:19,920
is cleared but then aquino in his

2472
01:17:23,590 --> 01:17:21,360
classic litigious way

2473
01:17:25,030 --> 01:17:23,600
went like i want every single reference

2474
01:17:27,189 --> 01:17:25,040
to you know any kind of

2475
01:17:29,030 --> 01:17:27,199
investigation against me blah blah blah

2476
01:17:31,110 --> 01:17:29,040
and everything like that to be

2477
01:17:33,110 --> 01:17:31,120
completely like wiped off the record and

2478
01:17:35,669 --> 01:17:33,120
i remember in that summary they said

2479
01:17:39,669 --> 01:17:35,679
well we're not going to do it because

2480
01:17:42,550 --> 01:17:39,679
some of your like your alibis were

2481
01:17:43,430 --> 01:17:42,560
not corroboratable or convincing i think

2482
01:17:46,709 --> 01:17:43,440
they literally said

2483
01:17:48,070 --> 01:17:46,719
not convincing so you know yeah army

2484
01:17:50,630 --> 01:17:48,080
of course they're going to cover up for

2485
01:17:52,390 --> 01:17:50,640
him and you know god knows how deep that

2486
01:17:55,030 --> 01:17:52,400
goes but it did seem to

2487
01:17:56,229 --> 01:17:55,040
kind of stop his career i don't know if

2488
01:17:58,070 --> 01:17:56,239
he would have gone on

2489
01:18:00,310 --> 01:17:58,080
maybe he's kind of like jim shannon and

2490
01:18:01,990 --> 01:18:00,320
some of these other kind of weird

2491
01:18:03,590 --> 01:18:02,000
men who steric goats kind of army

2492
01:18:06,470 --> 01:18:03,600
officers where they would

2493
01:18:08,070 --> 01:18:06,480
top out at colonel but you know he also

2494
01:18:10,070 --> 01:18:08,080
was going to like you know

2495
01:18:11,430 --> 01:18:10,080
all these like national defense colleges

2496
01:18:14,149 --> 01:18:11,440
and stuff he was working on

2497
01:18:15,189 --> 01:18:14,159
he was a you know an attache for nato in

2498
01:18:17,430 --> 01:18:15,199
the early 80s

2499
01:18:18,470 --> 01:18:17,440
like the absolute peak of you know the

2500
01:18:20,709 --> 01:18:18,480
cold war

2501
01:18:21,510 --> 01:18:20,719
you know uh star wars kind of drama

2502
01:18:24,390 --> 01:18:21,520
going on

2503
01:18:26,950 --> 01:18:24,400
and was you know doing ss dagger rituals

2504
01:18:29,030 --> 01:18:26,960
in himmler's castle right

2505
01:18:30,790 --> 01:18:29,040
so so the other the only other thing to

2506
01:18:31,510 --> 01:18:30,800
cover that i'd love for you to cover if

2507
01:18:34,149 --> 01:18:31,520
you can

2508
01:18:35,750 --> 01:18:34,159
to kind of wrap up the and that's it

2509
01:18:39,030 --> 01:18:35,760
aquino is that how we say it

2510
01:18:40,149 --> 01:18:39,040
so tie for people back because this is

2511
01:18:41,590 --> 01:18:40,159
like

2512
01:18:43,270 --> 01:18:41,600
for a lot of us this is the most super

2513
01:18:47,030 --> 01:18:43,280
scary part of it is

2514
01:18:49,669 --> 01:18:47,040
the legitimacy he has inside the in

2515
01:18:50,550 --> 01:18:49,679
military community as a sought-after

2516
01:18:53,030 --> 01:18:50,560
expert like

2517
01:18:53,990 --> 01:18:53,040
oh don't worry about all of that he can

2518
01:18:57,189 --> 01:18:54,000
help us

2519
01:18:59,270 --> 01:18:57,199
work on this uh mind control kind of

2520
01:19:02,310 --> 01:18:59,280
stuff that we're really interested in

2521
01:19:05,030 --> 01:19:02,320
and so grab him let's use him

2522
01:19:06,630 --> 01:19:05,040
yeah yeah he was like he was like the

2523
01:19:09,110 --> 01:19:06,640
psyop person you know he

2524
01:19:10,790 --> 01:19:09,120
wrote for like in the recent documentary

2525
01:19:11,750 --> 01:19:10,800
that hbo put out about q anon you know

2526
01:19:14,470 --> 01:19:11,760
they highlighted

2527
01:19:16,070 --> 01:19:14,480
jean-paul valerie for his you know work

2528
01:19:17,110 --> 01:19:16,080
on psyops and they were kind of trying

2529
01:19:19,350 --> 01:19:17,120
to connect into that

2530
01:19:21,590 --> 01:19:19,360
but they glossed over you know aquino's

2531
01:19:23,830 --> 01:19:21,600
authorship of the mind war

2532
01:19:25,110 --> 01:19:23,840
memo for him this famous white paper

2533
01:19:26,630 --> 01:19:25,120
that aquino wrote which

2534
01:19:28,310 --> 01:19:26,640
the concept of mind war which he would

2535
01:19:31,189 --> 01:19:28,320
develop later on you know

2536
01:19:33,110 --> 01:19:31,199
it has to do basically with the idea of

2537
01:19:36,070 --> 01:19:33,120
sort of convincing your enemy

2538
01:19:37,830 --> 01:19:36,080
to work with you to fight the mind war

2539
01:19:38,149 --> 01:19:37,840
against the mutually shared problem one

2540
01:19:39,430 --> 01:19:38,159
of the

2541
01:19:41,990 --> 01:19:39,440
one of my favorite anecdotes about

2542
01:19:43,830 --> 01:19:42,000
michael quino is that he wrote like an

2543
01:19:45,830 --> 01:19:43,840
alternate history novel

2544
01:19:47,830 --> 01:19:45,840
where the nazis instead of like

2545
01:19:48,470 --> 01:19:47,840
committing a genocide they just use mind

2546
01:19:52,149 --> 01:19:48,480
war

2547
01:19:54,550 --> 01:19:52,159
so it's all about

2548
01:19:55,990 --> 01:19:54,560
like uh we break the sword yeah it's

2549
01:19:58,709 --> 01:19:56,000
probably break the sword but

2550
01:20:00,390 --> 01:19:58,719
yeah he what he cut his teeth in vietnam

2551
01:20:02,630 --> 01:20:00,400
i mean doing this very very spooky

2552
01:20:05,430 --> 01:20:02,640
operation called a wandering soul

2553
01:20:07,110 --> 01:20:05,440
he developed these recordings known as

2554
01:20:08,229 --> 01:20:07,120
ghost tape number 10 you can you listen

2555
01:20:09,590 --> 01:20:08,239
to online is the

2556
01:20:11,430 --> 01:20:09,600
the most famous one and ghost type

2557
01:20:13,189 --> 01:20:11,440
number 10 and basically what they would

2558
01:20:13,910 --> 01:20:13,199
do is they would play out of helicopters

2559
01:20:17,110 --> 01:20:13,920
or from

2560
01:20:17,990 --> 01:20:17,120
backpacks of soldiers these uh sort of

2561
01:20:20,070 --> 01:20:18,000
eerie

2562
01:20:21,750 --> 01:20:20,080
sounds and wailings you know and the

2563
01:20:23,030 --> 01:20:21,760
idea was to sort of play off there are

2564
01:20:24,550 --> 01:20:23,040
many things like this you know

2565
01:20:27,030 --> 01:20:24,560
we talked in our episode on mothman

2566
01:20:28,390 --> 01:20:27,040
about the oswang related uh psyops that

2567
01:20:30,550 --> 01:20:28,400
took place in the philippines at

2568
01:20:32,310 --> 01:20:30,560
landsdale yeah yeah yeah basically

2569
01:20:34,149 --> 01:20:32,320
the the idea of this was to sort of

2570
01:20:35,590 --> 01:20:34,159
suggest and to play off the

2571
01:20:37,830 --> 01:20:35,600
what they imagined as being the

2572
01:20:40,149 --> 01:20:37,840
vietnamese belief in wandering

2573
01:20:42,229 --> 01:20:40,159
ghosts and and spirits and the idea that

2574
01:20:43,590 --> 01:20:42,239
if you died far away from your homeland

2575
01:20:45,350 --> 01:20:43,600
you would be doomed to wander the earth

2576
01:20:45,990 --> 01:20:45,360
forever so they would play these spooky

2577
01:20:48,629 --> 01:20:46,000
whales with

2578
01:20:49,270 --> 01:20:48,639
this man kind of camping in vietnamese

2579
01:20:51,750 --> 01:20:49,280
about

2580
01:20:53,430 --> 01:20:51,760
how he died far away from his home and

2581
01:20:55,110 --> 01:20:53,440
you know give up brothers you know go

2582
01:20:55,750 --> 01:20:55,120
home it's not too late you know if you

2583
01:20:58,070 --> 01:20:55,760
die

2584
01:20:59,510 --> 01:20:58,080
fighting the americans you know you will

2585
01:21:01,270 --> 01:20:59,520
like you know you'll end up tortured in

2586
01:21:03,189 --> 01:21:01,280
hell by demons

2587
01:21:04,629 --> 01:21:03,199
you know uh just you know moaning

2588
01:21:05,669 --> 01:21:04,639
apparently you know what what often

2589
01:21:07,110 --> 01:21:05,679
happened was that people

2590
01:21:08,870 --> 01:21:07,120
hearing this would just get infuriated

2591
01:21:10,470 --> 01:21:08,880
and return fire but

2592
01:21:11,669 --> 01:21:10,480
you know and reveal their position yeah

2593
01:21:12,470 --> 01:21:11,679
exactly would often reveal their

2594
01:21:14,470 --> 01:21:12,480
positions

2595
01:21:16,070 --> 01:21:14,480
so i guess maybe it was a qualified

2596
01:21:17,830 --> 01:21:16,080
success isn't that the really tricky

2597
01:21:18,709 --> 01:21:17,840
part of it though that that is so hard

2598
01:21:21,430 --> 01:21:18,719
to process

2599
01:21:22,709 --> 01:21:21,440
is like how do we really feel about that

2600
01:21:23,030 --> 01:21:22,719
you know because on the first love you

2601
01:21:27,189 --> 01:21:23,040
go

2602
01:21:28,070 --> 01:21:27,199
and then you like wait a minute how do i

2603
01:21:30,950 --> 01:21:28,080
really feel about

2604
01:21:31,910 --> 01:21:30,960
that in a quote-unquote war situation as

2605
01:21:33,270 --> 01:21:31,920
if that was

2606
01:21:34,950 --> 01:21:33,280
you know some kind of war or some kind

2607
01:21:35,669 --> 01:21:34,960
of defense the united states or but we

2608
01:21:37,350 --> 01:21:35,679
could get into

2609
01:21:38,709 --> 01:21:37,360
that but it's like we do have this

2610
01:21:40,229 --> 01:21:38,719
different kind of sensibility that

2611
01:21:42,070 --> 01:21:40,239
that there are situations where we have

2612
01:21:42,790 --> 01:21:42,080
to win and we're going to kind of make

2613
01:21:45,990 --> 01:21:42,800
that

2614
01:21:47,189 --> 01:21:46,000
moral high-level decision and then how

2615
01:21:48,870 --> 01:21:47,199
we implement it

2616
01:21:51,430 --> 01:21:48,880
we'll really give ourselves a lot of

2617
01:21:52,870 --> 01:21:51,440
leeway so isn't that really another

2618
01:21:54,470 --> 01:21:52,880
place where kind of we're

2619
01:21:55,990 --> 01:21:54,480
struggling with terra firma where the

2620
01:21:56,709 --> 01:21:56,000
rubber meets the road kind of thing i

2621
01:21:59,110 --> 01:21:56,719
mean how do

2622
01:21:59,830 --> 01:21:59,120
don't we don't we want to do don't we

2623
01:22:03,830 --> 01:21:59,840
want to hire

2624
01:22:06,470 --> 01:22:03,840
aleister crowley to do to see if he can

2625
01:22:06,950 --> 01:22:06,480
influence the nazis to fly over and we

2626
01:22:09,910 --> 01:22:06,960
can

2627
01:22:11,590 --> 01:22:09,920
yeah capture rudolph no i mean they did

2628
01:22:13,590 --> 01:22:11,600
do that right

2629
01:22:15,110 --> 01:22:13,600
bad astrological readings or something

2630
01:22:17,350 --> 01:22:15,120
like that like didn't he feed

2631
01:22:19,270 --> 01:22:17,360
hitler's astrologer bad readings or

2632
01:22:21,510 --> 01:22:19,280
something like that

2633
01:22:22,709 --> 01:22:21,520
a rumor but yeah i mean they're like

2634
01:22:24,390 --> 01:22:22,719
maybe you know there's

2635
01:22:25,990 --> 01:22:24,400
all these myths of like occult circles

2636
01:22:27,510 --> 01:22:26,000
operating like within the intelligence

2637
01:22:29,270 --> 01:22:27,520
world in world war ii but

2638
01:22:31,270 --> 01:22:29,280
i mean the vietnam war i think the

2639
01:22:32,870 --> 01:22:31,280
metronome group was not like a moral

2640
01:22:35,669 --> 01:22:32,880
war to begin with on the part of the

2641
01:22:37,910 --> 01:22:35,679
united states so like i also feel that

2642
01:22:39,750 --> 01:22:37,920
yes these this is all part of a larger

2643
01:22:41,590 --> 01:22:39,760
complex which is very cynical

2644
01:22:43,030 --> 01:22:41,600
and often you know again like just

2645
01:22:45,270 --> 01:22:43,040
infuriating and and

2646
01:22:47,430 --> 01:22:45,280
insulting to the people who are targeted

2647
01:22:48,950 --> 01:22:47,440
by it which is to sort of it has that

2648
01:22:50,310 --> 01:22:48,960
same sort of sneering it's very

2649
01:22:51,910 --> 01:22:50,320
sam hair it's like a sneering thing

2650
01:22:53,030 --> 01:22:51,920
where it's like oh we can manipulate

2651
01:22:56,149 --> 01:22:53,040
these savages

2652
01:22:59,189 --> 01:22:56,159
beliefs you know we can you know invade

2653
01:23:01,110 --> 01:22:59,199
their their psyches and and use their

2654
01:23:02,229 --> 01:23:01,120
their views against them in this way you

2655
01:23:04,310 --> 01:23:02,239
know yeah and i mean

2656
01:23:05,590 --> 01:23:04,320
ultimately it goes hand in hand with the

2657
01:23:08,310 --> 01:23:05,600
the violence of the war

2658
01:23:09,910 --> 01:23:08,320
even to bring it up to the 80s to the to

2659
01:23:12,629 --> 01:23:09,920
michael queen's very odd

2660
01:23:14,149 --> 01:23:12,639
performances on oprah and the geraldo

2661
01:23:16,950 --> 01:23:14,159
show when he went on

2662
01:23:17,510 --> 01:23:16,960
to you know basically defend the temple

2663
01:23:19,669 --> 01:23:17,520
of set

2664
01:23:20,950 --> 01:23:19,679
and satanic practices and stuff during

2665
01:23:22,550 --> 01:23:20,960
the height of the so-called

2666
01:23:24,149 --> 01:23:22,560
satanic panic you could almost see a

2667
01:23:24,790 --> 01:23:24,159
parallel between operation wandering

2668
01:23:26,950 --> 01:23:24,800
soul

2669
01:23:28,149 --> 01:23:26,960
and what he was doing there because he

2670
01:23:30,070 --> 01:23:28,159
was going on tv

2671
01:23:31,669 --> 01:23:30,080
in such a provocative way where it's

2672
01:23:33,189 --> 01:23:31,679
like he knew what he was doing

2673
01:23:35,510 --> 01:23:33,199
he knew he was going to basically

2674
01:23:37,189 --> 01:23:35,520
trigger all the kind of conservative

2675
01:23:39,750 --> 01:23:37,199
christian types that were

2676
01:23:41,430 --> 01:23:39,760
being terrified by what oprah and

2677
01:23:43,030 --> 01:23:41,440
geraldo and all these other people

2678
01:23:44,790 --> 01:23:43,040
were saying about how there's these evil

2679
01:23:47,110 --> 01:23:44,800
cults but then he was also sitting there

2680
01:23:48,950 --> 01:23:47,120
and going like that is actually not true

2681
01:23:50,149 --> 01:23:48,960
i am you know i might have devil

2682
01:23:52,310 --> 01:23:50,159
eyebrows and

2683
01:23:55,030 --> 01:23:52,320
have this like you know like very witchy

2684
01:23:56,709 --> 01:23:55,040
wife and stuff and seem very sinister

2685
01:23:58,629 --> 01:23:56,719
but you know actually there's nothing to

2686
01:24:01,350 --> 01:23:58,639
see here it almost like it

2687
01:24:02,950 --> 01:24:01,360
in in the sense of the real goal of the

2688
01:24:05,270 --> 01:24:02,960
recording of wandering soul

2689
01:24:07,590 --> 01:24:05,280
was to get the vietcong soldiers to rev

2690
01:24:09,189 --> 01:24:07,600
to get angry and reveal their position

2691
01:24:11,750 --> 01:24:09,199
and expose themselves

2692
01:24:13,430 --> 01:24:11,760
and it was it was all about eliciting a

2693
01:24:15,830 --> 01:24:13,440
psychological reaction

2694
01:24:17,270 --> 01:24:15,840
that was actually not exactly what the

2695
01:24:19,990 --> 01:24:17,280
kind of ostensible goal

2696
01:24:22,149 --> 01:24:20,000
of the operate of the psyop you know the

2697
01:24:23,830 --> 01:24:22,159
goal was to prey upon their

2698
01:24:26,390 --> 01:24:23,840
religious superstitions but what it

2699
01:24:28,629 --> 01:24:26,400
really was more is to get them

2700
01:24:30,550 --> 01:24:28,639
to show themselves and you know

2701
01:24:31,350 --> 01:24:30,560
basically rile them up and so much of

2702
01:24:33,189 --> 01:24:31,360
psyops

2703
01:24:34,709 --> 01:24:33,199
you can see it today with like with q

2704
01:24:36,790 --> 01:24:34,719
and on and all that other stuff

2705
01:24:38,070 --> 01:24:36,800
there are things that are so tailor-made

2706
01:24:40,790 --> 01:24:38,080
to almost just like get

2707
01:24:41,510 --> 01:24:40,800
people fired up and crazy and then react

2708
01:24:44,229 --> 01:24:41,520
towards

2709
01:24:45,430 --> 01:24:44,239
something and often it's done in a kind

2710
01:24:48,229 --> 01:24:45,440
of very

2711
01:24:49,830 --> 01:24:48,239
sophisticated way where you know i think

2712
01:24:50,629 --> 01:24:49,840
there were levels to like what michael

2713
01:24:52,709 --> 01:24:50,639
aquino

2714
01:24:53,830 --> 01:24:52,719
was doing both in the phoenix program

2715
01:24:56,229 --> 01:24:53,840
whatever in vietnam

2716
01:24:57,990 --> 01:24:56,239
and going on you know tv in the 80s

2717
01:24:59,110 --> 01:24:58,000
trying to defend himself but doing it in

2718
01:25:01,830 --> 01:24:59,120
this way where it's like

2719
01:25:02,470 --> 01:25:01,840
look how much of a black magician i am

2720
01:25:04,229 --> 01:25:02,480
you know

2721
01:25:05,830 --> 01:25:04,239
i think that's totally brilliant and you

2722
01:25:07,030 --> 01:25:05,840
guys are to be congratulated for kind of

2723
01:25:07,750 --> 01:25:07,040
seeing that because i remember when you

2724
01:25:10,550 --> 01:25:07,760
mentioned it

2725
01:25:13,189 --> 01:25:10,560
and it is such a great insight is that

2726
01:25:13,990 --> 01:25:13,199
if i can get you to emotionally engage

2727
01:25:17,189 --> 01:25:14,000
with me

2728
01:25:19,750 --> 01:25:17,199
and i'm controlling the topic then

2729
01:25:21,350 --> 01:25:19,760
i'm gonna win you know it's like i'm

2730
01:25:22,790 --> 01:25:21,360
gonna drag you into a gutter and we're

2731
01:25:23,430 --> 01:25:22,800
gonna both get dirty but at the end of

2732
01:25:25,430 --> 01:25:23,440
the day

2733
01:25:27,030 --> 01:25:25,440
we're gonna look like equals in some way

2734
01:25:28,950 --> 01:25:27,040
and and that just

2735
01:25:31,030 --> 01:25:28,960
when i'm in such an adverse position

2736
01:25:32,470 --> 01:25:31,040
that adversarial position that can do

2737
01:25:33,590 --> 01:25:32,480
nothing but help me

2738
01:25:35,430 --> 01:25:33,600
it's interesting that you mentioned that

2739
01:25:36,390 --> 01:25:35,440
because that's what his mother would go

2740
01:25:38,950 --> 01:25:36,400
on to do when she

2741
01:25:40,310 --> 01:25:38,960
found it or helped to found uh kpfa the

2742
01:25:42,229 --> 01:25:40,320
radio station which had

2743
01:25:43,910 --> 01:25:42,239
i was just gonna say that yeah you know

2744
01:25:45,189 --> 01:25:43,920
very very similar to their sort of

2745
01:25:46,390 --> 01:25:45,199
framing where they would always

2746
01:25:48,790 --> 01:25:46,400
they would have people of all different

2747
01:25:50,629 --> 01:25:48,800
beliefs on but they would always end up

2748
01:25:52,070 --> 01:25:50,639
affirming whatever their views were

2749
01:25:53,910 --> 01:25:52,080
because they would be setting the

2750
01:25:55,350 --> 01:25:53,920
questions you know so the debate could

2751
01:25:56,870 --> 01:25:55,360
be about whatever it could have like you

2752
01:25:58,629 --> 01:25:56,880
know the john birch society it could

2753
01:25:59,189 --> 01:25:58,639
have like malice you know debating each

2754
01:26:01,990 --> 01:25:59,199
other

2755
01:26:03,189 --> 01:26:02,000
but ultimately the end of the day kpfa

2756
01:26:04,950 --> 01:26:03,199
would be deciding the terms of the

2757
01:26:07,669 --> 01:26:04,960
debate and so they would always

2758
01:26:08,950 --> 01:26:07,679
win the epistemological battle yeah and

2759
01:26:11,189 --> 01:26:08,960
you know they were committed to a

2760
01:26:12,390 --> 01:26:11,199
pacifism which of course sounds good but

2761
01:26:14,070 --> 01:26:12,400
you know it came out of the mill yellow

2762
01:26:14,470 --> 01:26:14,080
of like not wanting to fight world war

2763
01:26:17,030 --> 01:26:14,480
ii

2764
01:26:17,830 --> 01:26:17,040
so there's definitely like a complex

2765
01:26:20,950 --> 01:26:17,840
element

2766
01:26:23,189 --> 01:26:20,960
in in that type of pacifism yeah

2767
01:26:24,709 --> 01:26:23,199
maybe his mother represented that's

2768
01:26:26,149 --> 01:26:24,719
that's the other thing that that we

2769
01:26:26,709 --> 01:26:26,159
didn't get we you know we've done

2770
01:26:29,110 --> 01:26:26,719
further

2771
01:26:30,950 --> 01:26:29,120
research we have an episode on kpfa

2772
01:26:31,430 --> 01:26:30,960
hopefully coming out in the next week or

2773
01:26:34,870 --> 01:26:31,440
so

2774
01:26:36,709 --> 01:26:34,880
deeper diving

2775
01:26:38,390 --> 01:26:36,719
into that and that was something that

2776
01:26:41,030 --> 01:26:38,400
really jumped out when i was

2777
01:26:42,390 --> 01:26:41,040
researching aquino's mom last year is

2778
01:26:43,270 --> 01:26:42,400
that he claimed that she was

2779
01:26:45,270 --> 01:26:43,280
instrumental

2780
01:26:46,709 --> 01:26:45,280
she basically co-founded the pacifica

2781
01:26:49,430 --> 01:26:46,719
foundation and

2782
01:26:51,270 --> 01:26:49,440
kpfa radio and i mean are you are you

2783
01:26:55,270 --> 01:26:51,280
familiar with the pacifica radio

2784
01:26:57,669 --> 01:26:55,280
kpfa kpfk i'm not but i can only

2785
01:26:59,189 --> 01:26:57,679
imagine yeah i mean i mean have you ever

2786
01:27:01,189 --> 01:26:59,199
seen democracy now

2787
01:27:02,950 --> 01:27:01,199
of course goodman yeah but that's that's

2788
01:27:04,790 --> 01:27:02,960
pacifica that's pacifica radio

2789
01:27:06,149 --> 01:27:04,800
and that's kind of like their flagship

2790
01:27:09,110 --> 01:27:06,159
but they were one of the first

2791
01:27:11,189 --> 01:27:09,120
listener supported alternative public

2792
01:27:12,709 --> 01:27:11,199
radio stations it started in berkeley in

2793
01:27:15,510 --> 01:27:12,719
the late 1940s

2794
01:27:16,550 --> 01:27:15,520
and then it expanded to los angeles and

2795
01:27:18,070 --> 01:27:16,560
then new york

2796
01:27:19,990 --> 01:27:18,080
and it's still around today in kind of

2797
01:27:22,149 --> 01:27:20,000
various forms and

2798
01:27:23,830 --> 01:27:22,159
the seeing that michael quino's mother

2799
01:27:24,470 --> 01:27:23,840
because you know i grew up in the bay

2800
01:27:28,229 --> 01:27:24,480
area

2801
01:27:32,070 --> 01:27:28,239
and i remember kpfa is a very granola

2802
01:27:34,070 --> 01:27:32,080
hippie lefty pacifist kind of radio

2803
01:27:36,310 --> 01:27:34,080
station like it's totally identified

2804
01:27:38,870 --> 01:27:36,320
with like the 60s california

2805
01:27:40,310 --> 01:27:38,880
sort of counterculture and is definitely

2806
01:27:42,310 --> 01:27:40,320
situated on the left

2807
01:27:43,430 --> 01:27:42,320
you know and so that's always what i

2808
01:27:45,189 --> 01:27:43,440
knew about it kind of

2809
01:27:46,790 --> 01:27:45,199
growing up and yeah if you watch you

2810
01:27:48,229 --> 01:27:46,800
know democracy now oh they're talking

2811
01:27:50,310 --> 01:27:48,239
about the green party and

2812
01:27:51,990 --> 01:27:50,320
you know they're criticizing the us for

2813
01:27:52,709 --> 01:27:52,000
doing you know bombing people overseas

2814
01:27:54,950 --> 01:27:52,719
and things like that

2815
01:27:56,629 --> 01:27:54,960
but the fact that aquino's mother was

2816
01:27:57,270 --> 01:27:56,639
right there at the very beginning of it

2817
01:28:00,070 --> 01:27:57,280
and

2818
01:28:02,149 --> 01:28:00,080
like khalid said was in this milieu of

2819
01:28:03,590 --> 01:28:02,159
pacifists now the ones that i think

2820
01:28:05,350 --> 01:28:03,600
who was it lewis hill was the main

2821
01:28:06,070 --> 01:28:05,360
founder he was the nephew of frank

2822
01:28:08,950 --> 01:28:06,080
phillips

2823
01:28:11,110 --> 01:28:08,960
who was uh an oil baron who you know if

2824
01:28:13,510 --> 01:28:11,120
you know conoco phillips the oil company

2825
01:28:14,229 --> 01:28:13,520
or philip 66 you know the gas station

2826
01:28:16,149 --> 01:28:14,239
sure yeah

2827
01:28:17,669 --> 01:28:16,159
that's he's the nephew of that guy so

2828
01:28:20,709 --> 01:28:17,679
these guys come from kind of

2829
01:28:21,590 --> 01:28:20,719
uh high bourgeoisie rob like western

2830
01:28:23,669 --> 01:28:21,600
robber baron

2831
01:28:24,629 --> 01:28:23,679
kind of backgrounds and stuff and so i

2832
01:28:26,310 --> 01:28:24,639
think he met

2833
01:28:28,550 --> 01:28:26,320
aquino's mom at stanford and then you

2834
01:28:29,189 --> 01:28:28,560
know he was a conscientious objector in

2835
01:28:31,590 --> 01:28:29,199
world war

2836
01:28:33,270 --> 01:28:31,600
ii i i wouldn't say i genuinely think he

2837
01:28:33,669 --> 01:28:33,280
really did believe in pacifism and like

2838
01:28:36,229 --> 01:28:33,679
wasn't

2839
01:28:37,110 --> 01:28:36,239
a secret nazi sympathizer but aquino's

2840
01:28:39,750 --> 01:28:37,120
mom on the other hand

2841
01:28:40,629 --> 01:28:39,760
she spent the bulk of the 1930s in nazi

2842
01:28:43,350 --> 01:28:40,639
germany

2843
01:28:45,110 --> 01:28:43,360
and didn't really ever nothing we found

2844
01:28:46,470 --> 01:28:45,120
indicates that she had too many bad

2845
01:28:49,590 --> 01:28:46,480
things to say about it

2846
01:28:51,350 --> 01:28:49,600
and then she has this son who becomes

2847
01:28:53,510 --> 01:28:51,360
goes into the military and becomes a

2848
01:28:55,510 --> 01:28:53,520
psyop guy who requests

2849
01:28:57,270 --> 01:28:55,520
to go to vietnam and probably loved

2850
01:28:59,430 --> 01:28:57,280
being involved in the phoenix program

2851
01:29:00,390 --> 01:28:59,440
joins the church of satan the temple of

2852
01:29:01,990 --> 01:29:00,400
set his mom

2853
01:29:03,669 --> 01:29:02,000
joined the temple of set after he

2854
01:29:05,830 --> 01:29:03,679
founded it and stuff

2855
01:29:06,950 --> 01:29:05,840
and so i it really made her head spin of

2856
01:29:08,629 --> 01:29:06,960
like how

2857
01:29:11,110 --> 01:29:08,639
like because she was involved she had a

2858
01:29:11,750 --> 01:29:11,120
radio show on kpfa for years like a book

2859
01:29:13,590 --> 01:29:11,760
report

2860
01:29:14,790 --> 01:29:13,600
he claims that she was the first one to

2861
01:29:17,430 --> 01:29:14,800
introduce

2862
01:29:19,990 --> 01:29:17,440
the novel the boris bastard novel dr

2863
01:29:20,390 --> 01:29:20,000
zhivago to american audiences after it

2864
01:29:22,870 --> 01:29:20,400
was

2865
01:29:24,709 --> 01:29:22,880
translated into english and you know you

2866
01:29:26,550 --> 01:29:24,719
can go on ca.gov and see

2867
01:29:27,910 --> 01:29:26,560
that the whole operation around dr

2868
01:29:30,790 --> 01:29:27,920
zhivago was like

2869
01:29:32,550 --> 01:29:30,800
the cia was heavily invested in both

2870
01:29:35,830 --> 01:29:32,560
popularizing it in the west

2871
01:29:37,750 --> 01:29:35,840
and getting prints of it done in europe

2872
01:29:39,830 --> 01:29:37,760
in russian to smuggle back into the

2873
01:29:40,470 --> 01:29:39,840
soviet union so it was like a cold war

2874
01:29:42,390 --> 01:29:40,480
psyop

2875
01:29:43,510 --> 01:29:42,400
and aquino says she was the first one to

2876
01:29:44,790 --> 01:29:43,520
do a review of it

2877
01:29:46,950 --> 01:29:44,800
like right when it was published and

2878
01:29:48,870 --> 01:29:46,960
quote-unquote introduce it to american

2879
01:29:50,149 --> 01:29:48,880
audiences so there's that but it's like

2880
01:29:52,229 --> 01:29:50,159
you know she's hanging out with all

2881
01:29:54,709 --> 01:29:52,239
these lefty hippie bay area people

2882
01:29:56,470 --> 01:29:54,719
and then she didn't she seemed to be

2883
01:29:58,070 --> 01:29:56,480
totally cool with her son

2884
01:29:59,990 --> 01:29:58,080
joining the military at the height of

2885
01:30:01,350 --> 01:30:00,000
the vietnam war and going

2886
01:30:03,030 --> 01:30:01,360
like you know what i mean like there's

2887
01:30:05,030 --> 01:30:03,040
something off there it doesn't make any

2888
01:30:06,550 --> 01:30:05,040
sense now of course kpfa also

2889
01:30:08,709 --> 01:30:06,560
started getting money from the ford

2890
01:30:10,470 --> 01:30:08,719
foundation no relation by the way betty

2891
01:30:12,709 --> 01:30:10,480
ford she's not one of those fords

2892
01:30:13,990 --> 01:30:12,719
but the ford foundation i think it went

2893
01:30:15,270 --> 01:30:14,000
it might have been under the control of

2894
01:30:17,030 --> 01:30:15,280
mcgeorge bundy

2895
01:30:18,709 --> 01:30:17,040
you know and a bun and maybe a richard

2896
01:30:20,629 --> 01:30:18,719
bissell you know guys who are involved

2897
01:30:22,149 --> 01:30:20,639
in bay of pigs and

2898
01:30:24,390 --> 01:30:22,159
you know we're architects of the vietnam

2899
01:30:25,270 --> 01:30:24,400
war itself we're funding this lefty

2900
01:30:27,110 --> 01:30:25,280
alternative

2901
01:30:28,470 --> 01:30:27,120
radio station in the bay area and that's

2902
01:30:30,070 --> 01:30:28,480
something you know we've talked about in

2903
01:30:31,830 --> 01:30:30,080
a lot of different contexts like

2904
01:30:33,590 --> 01:30:31,840
the covert funding like you said with

2905
01:30:35,990 --> 01:30:33,600
gloria steinem and cia

2906
01:30:37,990 --> 01:30:36,000
like the funding of the counter culture

2907
01:30:39,030 --> 01:30:38,000
not like not just the subversion of it

2908
01:30:42,790 --> 01:30:39,040
but sometimes

2909
01:30:44,870 --> 01:30:42,800
creating entities out of whole cloth or

2910
01:30:46,709 --> 01:30:44,880
you know basically sponsoring things

2911
01:30:48,550 --> 01:30:46,719
that are so heavily infiltrated

2912
01:30:50,709 --> 01:30:48,560
that they end up serving the kind of

2913
01:30:53,990 --> 01:30:50,719
overall ideological purposes

2914
01:30:55,750 --> 01:30:54,000
of kind of the the us empire if you will

2915
01:30:57,590 --> 01:30:55,760
and it's like kind of cold war

2916
01:31:00,070 --> 01:30:57,600
objectives and oftentimes is

2917
01:31:00,709 --> 01:31:00,080
very subtle you know it's not like you

2918
01:31:02,709 --> 01:31:00,719
know

2919
01:31:03,750 --> 01:31:02,719
they did have john birch society people

2920
01:31:06,390 --> 01:31:03,760
and maoists and

2921
01:31:08,470 --> 01:31:06,400
sometimes communists on but they're you

2922
01:31:10,950 --> 01:31:08,480
know the way it was framed

2923
01:31:12,709 --> 01:31:10,960
was in such a way that i assume if it

2924
01:31:14,149 --> 01:31:12,719
was really

2925
01:31:15,830 --> 01:31:14,159
politically or epistemologically

2926
01:31:17,350 --> 01:31:15,840
threatening to the u.s ruling class then

2927
01:31:18,550 --> 01:31:17,360
the ford foundation wouldn't have given

2928
01:31:19,990 --> 01:31:18,560
it millions of dollars

2929
01:31:21,750 --> 01:31:20,000
you know i mean is that a safe

2930
01:31:22,870 --> 01:31:21,760
assumption yeah they also funded uh

2931
01:31:25,750 --> 01:31:22,880
kenneth anger

2932
01:31:27,270 --> 01:31:25,760
a satanic dabbler but yeah and you know

2933
01:31:28,950 --> 01:31:27,280
people sometimes will say like oh you

2934
01:31:31,030 --> 01:31:28,960
know what is the significance of

2935
01:31:32,629 --> 01:31:31,040
doing genealogy you know everyone has

2936
01:31:33,910 --> 01:31:32,639
like a suspicious family i mean the

2937
01:31:35,030 --> 01:31:33,920
queen of himself is suspicious so you

2938
01:31:35,990 --> 01:31:35,040
don't really even need to go to his

2939
01:31:38,629 --> 01:31:36,000
family but

2940
01:31:39,030 --> 01:31:38,639
you know it does bear mentioning that he

2941
01:31:40,709 --> 01:31:39,040
would

2942
01:31:42,149 --> 01:31:40,719
characterize himself you know in these

2943
01:31:44,229 --> 01:31:42,159
terms i remember one of my

2944
01:31:45,990 --> 01:31:44,239
uh favorite things that he's he's said

2945
01:31:48,629 --> 01:31:46,000
that someone else pointed out to us

2946
01:31:50,470 --> 01:31:48,639
was that he described himself as being

2947
01:31:52,870 --> 01:31:50,480
born with you know a whirl of

2948
01:31:54,709 --> 01:31:52,880
a swastika of hair on his chest you know

2949
01:31:56,310 --> 01:31:54,719
and his eyebrows oh my god naturally

2950
01:31:58,470 --> 01:31:56,320
tilted up in this satanic

2951
01:32:00,390 --> 01:31:58,480
way you know and i incidentally i was

2952
01:32:03,189 --> 01:32:00,400
born you know only nine months after a

2953
01:32:06,070 --> 01:32:03,199
certain ritual was performed you know by

2954
01:32:06,950 --> 01:32:06,080
jack you know yeah he basically depicted

2955
01:32:09,030 --> 01:32:06,960
himself as being like

2956
01:32:10,470 --> 01:32:09,040
a moon child produced by like the

2957
01:32:13,510 --> 01:32:10,480
babylon working or

2958
01:32:13,910 --> 01:32:13,520
any sort of antichrist ritual so you

2959
01:32:16,149 --> 01:32:13,920
know

2960
01:32:16,950 --> 01:32:16,159
the idea of uh implicating his mother in

2961
01:32:18,870 --> 01:32:16,960
all of this

2962
01:32:21,189 --> 01:32:18,880
is something that divisionates with him

2963
01:32:21,910 --> 01:32:21,199
you know yes and also just to throw in

2964
01:32:24,390 --> 01:32:21,920
we also

2965
01:32:25,430 --> 01:32:24,400
found i think in an interview you know

2966
01:32:28,149 --> 01:32:25,440
it was kind of

2967
01:32:29,750 --> 01:32:28,159
not a lot about her religion or you know

2968
01:32:31,350 --> 01:32:29,760
what kind of church or faith she

2969
01:32:32,790 --> 01:32:31,360
belonged to except for of course that

2970
01:32:35,590 --> 01:32:32,800
she joined the temple upset

2971
01:32:36,629 --> 01:32:35,600
in the 70s but before that he did

2972
01:32:39,110 --> 01:32:36,639
mention that

2973
01:32:40,310 --> 01:32:39,120
when she ran off and kind of got married

2974
01:32:42,390 --> 01:32:40,320
to aquino's

2975
01:32:43,830 --> 01:32:42,400
you know putative father a michael

2976
01:32:45,350 --> 01:32:43,840
aquino senior

2977
01:32:46,950 --> 01:32:45,360
right at the end of i i think right at

2978
01:32:49,510 --> 01:32:46,960
the end of world war ii

2979
01:32:50,629 --> 01:32:49,520
that they needed to find a church to go

2980
01:32:52,950 --> 01:32:50,639
get married in

2981
01:32:53,669 --> 01:32:52,960
and she didn't belong to a church which

2982
01:32:55,590 --> 01:32:53,679
i think

2983
01:32:56,870 --> 01:32:55,600
in early 20th century america is

2984
01:32:58,750 --> 01:32:56,880
interesting in and of itself

2985
01:33:00,709 --> 01:32:58,760
but then she finally picked a

2986
01:33:02,550 --> 01:33:00,719
swedenborgian church because

2987
01:33:04,070 --> 01:33:02,560
its doctrines were the least uh

2988
01:33:06,229 --> 01:33:04,080
repulsive to her

2989
01:33:08,149 --> 01:33:06,239
yeah and so you know i i'm still looking

2990
01:33:08,790 --> 01:33:08,159
more into swedenborgian stuff but that

2991
01:33:11,350 --> 01:33:08,800
is a real

2992
01:33:13,030 --> 01:33:11,360
very history and a huge free masonic

2993
01:33:14,470 --> 01:33:13,040
connection to the history of

2994
01:33:16,229 --> 01:33:14,480
swedenborganism so

2995
01:33:17,510 --> 01:33:16,239
yeah that is that stuck out to me as an

2996
01:33:18,709 --> 01:33:17,520
interesting choice when you mention it

2997
01:33:19,830 --> 01:33:18,719
way back when and

2998
01:33:22,229 --> 01:33:19,840
i think that might not have been just

2999
01:33:24,629 --> 01:33:22,239
random yeah i think maybe she was a

3000
01:33:26,470 --> 01:33:24,639
swedenborgian maybe yeah

3001
01:33:27,750 --> 01:33:26,480
or at least had an affinity with them

3002
01:33:30,070 --> 01:33:27,760
and they haven't offended you know

3003
01:33:31,990 --> 01:33:30,080
the of those doctrines they have like

3004
01:33:33,189 --> 01:33:32,000
you know that swedenborgianism came out

3005
01:33:33,830 --> 01:33:33,199
originally out of sort of like a free

3006
01:33:35,430 --> 01:33:33,840
masonic

3007
01:33:37,750 --> 01:33:35,440
milieu or was very connected with the

3008
01:33:39,830 --> 01:33:37,760
revival of freemasonry but

3009
01:33:42,550 --> 01:33:39,840
yeah it is it's very it's very it's very

3010
01:33:43,990 --> 01:33:42,560
interesting connection

3011
01:33:45,830 --> 01:33:44,000
there's one topic i really wanted to

3012
01:33:48,470 --> 01:33:45,840
dive into there's

3013
01:33:49,990 --> 01:33:48,480
like multiple multiple connections with

3014
01:33:52,709 --> 01:33:50,000
the work that you've done again

3015
01:33:54,550 --> 01:33:52,719
check out subliminal jihad and you're

3016
01:33:56,470 --> 01:33:54,560
kind of getting a sense for

3017
01:33:57,990 --> 01:33:56,480
how these guys go at it and the

3018
01:33:59,990 --> 01:33:58,000
connections that they'll

3019
01:34:02,070 --> 01:34:00,000
link that you you never knew were there

3020
01:34:05,270 --> 01:34:02,080
and you know what what was that

3021
01:34:07,510 --> 01:34:05,280
the swastika on my chest yeah the

3022
01:34:10,310 --> 01:34:07,520
world yeah he said that the buddha and

3023
01:34:12,310 --> 01:34:10,320
also uh i think crowley had it the the

3024
01:34:12,550 --> 01:34:12,320
swastika the world swastika of hair on

3025
01:34:15,350 --> 01:34:12,560
his

3026
01:34:16,709 --> 01:34:15,360
chest yeah but the topic of the topic i

3027
01:34:18,470 --> 01:34:16,719
want to try and

3028
01:34:19,990 --> 01:34:18,480
wade into and we won't really have time

3029
01:34:23,189 --> 01:34:20,000
to cover it

3030
01:34:27,750 --> 01:34:23,199
hardly at all but is the ufo

3031
01:34:31,030 --> 01:34:27,760
et thing and maybe one way to get there

3032
01:34:34,470 --> 01:34:31,040
is danny sheehan because i just

3033
01:34:36,950 --> 01:34:34,480
interviewed ralph bloomfall who

3034
01:34:38,870 --> 01:34:36,960
wrote a book autobiography of john mack

3035
01:34:40,709 --> 01:34:38,880
you guys knew john mack is right yeah

3036
01:34:42,470 --> 01:34:40,719
yeah yeah i listened to a little bit

3037
01:34:44,229 --> 01:34:42,480
yeah i remember reading his book

3038
01:34:46,070 --> 01:34:44,239
way way back in high school yeah because

3039
01:34:48,390 --> 01:34:46,080
he was the preeminent like

3040
01:34:49,990 --> 01:34:48,400
you know abduction guy if we don't have

3041
01:34:51,669 --> 01:34:50,000
the credentials you know the series

3042
01:34:53,189 --> 01:34:51,679
exactly yeah he's the guy who had the

3043
01:34:56,550 --> 01:34:53,199
credentials so

3044
01:34:59,750 --> 01:34:56,560
you know there had been this thing

3045
01:35:00,870 --> 01:34:59,760
where abduction was all in the air and

3046
01:35:02,550 --> 01:35:00,880
bud hopkins

3047
01:35:04,310 --> 01:35:02,560
and david jacobs are really the guy who

3048
01:35:05,750 --> 01:35:04,320
are making guys who are making all the

3049
01:35:10,229 --> 01:35:05,760
noise about abduction

3050
01:35:13,270 --> 01:35:10,239
and then john mack who is superstar

3051
01:35:15,990 --> 01:35:13,280
harvard psychiatrist i mean like elite

3052
01:35:17,830 --> 01:35:16,000
elite pulitzer prize winner

3053
01:35:20,550 --> 01:35:17,840
but thinks he can do anything so he just

3054
01:35:22,629 --> 01:35:20,560
kind of is rubbing shoulders with butt

3055
01:35:25,270 --> 01:35:22,639
hopkins because he's art connection

3056
01:35:26,390 --> 01:35:25,280
khalid he's kind of an esteemed artist

3057
01:35:28,629 --> 01:35:26,400
in manhattan

3058
01:35:29,830 --> 01:35:28,639
but hopkins is so he's like hey let's go

3059
01:35:31,669 --> 01:35:29,840
see what this guy's up to

3060
01:35:33,669 --> 01:35:31,679
i think it's all [\h__\h] but then he

3061
01:35:35,830 --> 01:35:33,679
becomes oh my god if this is real i have

3062
01:35:36,709 --> 01:35:35,840
to know and i'm john mack i can know

3063
01:35:39,669 --> 01:35:36,719
anything

3064
01:35:40,550 --> 01:35:39,679
and he starts interviewing people and he

3065
01:35:46,709 --> 01:35:40,560
says

3066
01:35:48,950 --> 01:35:46,719
as a psychiatrist leads me to believe

3067
01:35:50,870 --> 01:35:48,960
that this is real they're not

3068
01:35:52,550 --> 01:35:50,880
hallucinating and that's what i'm

3069
01:35:53,510 --> 01:35:52,560
trained to do that's what i do i tell if

3070
01:35:55,430 --> 01:35:53,520
people are having

3071
01:35:57,189 --> 01:35:55,440
hallucinations or delusions or anything

3072
01:35:58,229 --> 01:35:57,199
like that they're people it's not

3073
01:36:00,390 --> 01:35:58,239
cultural there's

3074
01:36:01,910 --> 01:36:00,400
i have a two-year-old that says she saw

3075
01:36:05,350 --> 01:36:01,920
the thing come in the room this and that

3076
01:36:07,270 --> 01:36:05,360
i have people who are paraplegic

3077
01:36:08,950 --> 01:36:07,280
who can't move who have marks on their

3078
01:36:11,669 --> 01:36:08,960
body everything

3079
01:36:13,270 --> 01:36:11,679
my training and my common sense tells me

3080
01:36:15,510 --> 01:36:13,280
that these accounts are real

3081
01:36:17,830 --> 01:36:15,520
right so that is who john mack is and he

3082
01:36:19,750 --> 01:36:17,840
gets in all sorts of trouble at harvard

3083
01:36:21,189 --> 01:36:19,760
which again he's kind of a naive guy

3084
01:36:23,910 --> 01:36:21,199
which is surprising

3085
01:36:25,189 --> 01:36:23,920
but he kind of has this you know he's

3086
01:36:28,790 --> 01:36:25,199
kind of a rich kid

3087
01:36:30,310 --> 01:36:28,800
a trust fund jewish elitist

3088
01:36:31,910 --> 01:36:30,320
east coast kind of and he's kind of

3089
01:36:33,350 --> 01:36:31,920
naive and he just thinks oh well this

3090
01:36:33,910 --> 01:36:33,360
will be great and then harvard is going

3091
01:36:35,590 --> 01:36:33,920
to

3092
01:36:37,189 --> 01:36:35,600
sack him you know and they call him in

3093
01:36:40,550 --> 01:36:37,199
for this kind of

3094
01:36:41,910 --> 01:36:40,560
inquisition kind of thing and he's

3095
01:36:44,070 --> 01:36:41,920
stumbles out of it and he doesn't know

3096
01:36:45,430 --> 01:36:44,080
what he does he doesn't know what to do

3097
01:36:46,790 --> 01:36:45,440
and he's like calling up whitley

3098
01:36:48,149 --> 01:36:46,800
strieber and he goes hey man i think

3099
01:36:51,030 --> 01:36:48,159
this is over you know

3100
01:36:52,390 --> 01:36:51,040
i could lose everything and who comes to

3101
01:36:55,830 --> 01:36:52,400
the rescue

3102
01:36:57,990 --> 01:36:55,840
danny sheehan danny sheen comes and he

3103
01:36:59,590 --> 01:36:58,000
represents him danny sheehan along with

3104
01:37:02,950 --> 01:36:59,600
who you guys you know always say

3105
01:37:05,430 --> 01:37:02,960
danny sheehan jesuit because he does

3106
01:37:07,669 --> 01:37:05,440
jesuit right the christic institute was

3107
01:37:09,270 --> 01:37:07,679
his thing that he founded yes

3108
01:37:11,350 --> 01:37:09,280
but he was originally like doing iran

3109
01:37:14,070 --> 01:37:11,360
contra defense you know defending

3110
01:37:15,750 --> 01:37:14,080
iran contra accuses whistleblowers but

3111
01:37:18,790 --> 01:37:15,760
he kind of blew it up by getting

3112
01:37:22,229 --> 01:37:18,800
mired in like larushi stuff you know

3113
01:37:23,109 --> 01:37:22,239
you you guys have an incredible show on

3114
01:37:25,510 --> 01:37:23,119
that that i

3115
01:37:27,270 --> 01:37:25,520
i i can't quite process that all the way

3116
01:37:29,510 --> 01:37:27,280
like i don't know because that could

3117
01:37:31,030 --> 01:37:29,520
flip either way and chance shows up in a

3118
01:37:32,070 --> 01:37:31,040
bunch of other different places but it

3119
01:37:34,470 --> 01:37:32,080
is interesting

3120
01:37:35,830 --> 01:37:34,480
and i actually asked you know ralph

3121
01:37:37,830 --> 01:37:35,840
blumenthal the guy who wrote the book

3122
01:37:39,510 --> 01:37:37,840
and he's a veteran new york times

3123
01:37:41,270 --> 01:37:39,520
journalist but there's another quick

3124
01:37:45,270 --> 01:37:41,280
story i want to say about blumenthal

3125
01:37:48,550 --> 01:37:45,280
but back to back to mack for a minute

3126
01:37:50,550 --> 01:37:48,560
his co-attorney on this is the guy from

3127
01:37:50,870 --> 01:37:50,560
uh spotlight the guy who i forget his

3128
01:37:53,350 --> 01:37:50,880
name

3129
01:37:55,270 --> 01:37:53,360
now but the guy who defeated broderick

3130
01:37:56,790 --> 01:37:55,280
broderick mcleish

3131
01:37:58,390 --> 01:37:56,800
you see the guy who prosecuted the

3132
01:38:01,830 --> 01:37:58,400
priests in boston

3133
01:38:03,189 --> 01:38:01,840
yes yes it is yeah so so that's what a

3134
01:38:06,790 --> 01:38:03,199
strange

3135
01:38:09,109 --> 01:38:06,800
mix there to have to have

3136
01:38:10,229 --> 01:38:09,119
didn't you do you want i don't know i

3137
01:38:11,430 --> 01:38:10,239
don't know if you're aware of this do

3138
01:38:12,870 --> 01:38:11,440
you want to

3139
01:38:14,790 --> 01:38:12,880
do you want it to get even weirder

3140
01:38:17,510 --> 01:38:14,800
because i'm reading right now

3141
01:38:18,390 --> 01:38:17,520
that he was supported john mack was

3142
01:38:20,470 --> 01:38:18,400
financially

3143
01:38:23,109 --> 01:38:20,480
or his non-profit was supported for four

3144
01:38:23,750 --> 01:38:23,119
years at a cost of 250 thousand dollars

3145
01:38:27,109 --> 01:38:23,760
pier

3146
01:38:28,629 --> 01:38:27,119
by the reincarnated emperor of atlantis

3147
01:38:30,709 --> 01:38:28,639
lawrence rockefeller

3148
01:38:32,229 --> 01:38:30,719
right yeah that makes sense yeah he was

3149
01:38:33,750 --> 01:38:32,239
told i guess during

3150
01:38:36,070 --> 01:38:33,760
allegedly we've heard that he was told

3151
01:38:38,229 --> 01:38:36,080
at esselm institute by the nine

3152
01:38:39,350 --> 01:38:38,239
the sort of channeled entities who ran

3153
01:38:40,870 --> 01:38:39,360
eslin for a while

3154
01:38:42,550 --> 01:38:40,880
you know that he was a reincarnation of

3155
01:38:44,390 --> 01:38:42,560
an emperor of atlantis so that's why we

3156
01:38:47,350 --> 01:38:44,400
refer to nelson rockefeller

3157
01:38:47,990 --> 01:38:47,360
by that title but yeah it's you know

3158
01:38:49,030 --> 01:38:48,000
this is

3159
01:38:50,709 --> 01:38:49,040
it's something that's very interesting

3160
01:38:51,830 --> 01:38:50,719
to me you know not to i know i haven't

3161
01:38:53,910 --> 01:38:51,840
listened to your show with

3162
01:38:55,109 --> 01:38:53,920
street verb i'm interested to do so but

3163
01:38:56,870 --> 01:38:55,119
it's something that was very interesting

3164
01:38:57,990 --> 01:38:56,880
to me and sort of reading more about him

3165
01:39:00,229 --> 01:38:58,000
because of the connection that jimmy

3166
01:39:00,870 --> 01:39:00,239
drew between him and jack sarfati and

3167
01:39:02,149 --> 01:39:00,880
epstein

3168
01:39:03,669 --> 01:39:02,159
that hadn't necessarily occurred to me

3169
01:39:05,189 --> 01:39:03,679
before you know his work goes in very

3170
01:39:06,870 --> 01:39:05,199
interesting directions you know the idea

3171
01:39:08,709 --> 01:39:06,880
of the connection between

3172
01:39:09,990 --> 01:39:08,719
the aliens and the dead you know of

3173
01:39:10,470 --> 01:39:10,000
course there's this gifted children

3174
01:39:12,870 --> 01:39:10,480
theme

3175
01:39:14,229 --> 01:39:12,880
where there's from childhood you know

3176
01:39:14,709 --> 01:39:14,239
there's this connection with them that

3177
01:39:17,189 --> 01:39:14,719
then

3178
01:39:18,709 --> 01:39:17,199
blossoms in later life and something

3179
01:39:19,189 --> 01:39:18,719
that he brought out in later works is

3180
01:39:21,189 --> 01:39:19,199
that

3181
01:39:22,790 --> 01:39:21,199
you know the there's some connection

3182
01:39:23,350 --> 01:39:22,800
between them and death you know that

3183
01:39:24,470 --> 01:39:23,360
we're being

3184
01:39:25,910 --> 01:39:24,480
brought up for death i guess it's

3185
01:39:27,350 --> 01:39:25,920
connected in a way with the ndae thing

3186
01:39:29,990 --> 01:39:27,360
and some of the skepticism

3187
01:39:31,350 --> 01:39:30,000
it connects only with the skeptical part

3188
01:39:33,350 --> 01:39:31,360
and that's why i think

3189
01:39:35,270 --> 01:39:33,360
we need to be suspicious of it because

3190
01:39:38,149 --> 01:39:35,280
it has so i don't know i

3191
01:39:40,070 --> 01:39:38,159
we can't decide definitively but it has

3192
01:39:42,470 --> 01:39:40,080
a lot of the fingerprints of a

3193
01:39:43,990 --> 01:39:42,480
of a psyop too you know is that i am

3194
01:39:44,709 --> 01:39:44,000
going to co-op that and i'm going to

3195
01:39:47,109 --> 01:39:44,719
kind of

3196
01:39:48,870 --> 01:39:47,119
control that message two narratives of

3197
01:39:49,350 --> 01:39:48,880
it one is that like it's all an alien

3198
01:39:51,669 --> 01:39:49,360
trick

3199
01:39:52,390 --> 01:39:51,679
and the other one is that the aliens are

3200
01:39:55,430 --> 01:39:52,400
like real

3201
01:39:57,590 --> 01:39:55,440
sincere peaceful representatives of

3202
01:39:58,790 --> 01:39:57,600
you know whatever awaits us upon death

3203
01:40:00,790 --> 01:39:58,800
you know there's different

3204
01:40:02,070 --> 01:40:00,800
spins on it i wouldn't necessarily break

3205
01:40:04,229 --> 01:40:02,080
it down like that because

3206
01:40:05,350 --> 01:40:04,239
i i would say look as soon as we

3207
01:40:06,950 --> 01:40:05,360
contemplate

3208
01:40:09,510 --> 01:40:06,960
an extraterrestrial non-human

3209
01:40:11,590 --> 01:40:09,520
intelligence in these extended realms

3210
01:40:13,669 --> 01:40:11,600
well we can attach anything to it we can

3211
01:40:15,750 --> 01:40:13,679
say you know they're in cahoots with

3212
01:40:17,350 --> 01:40:15,760
the military industrial complex and you

3213
01:40:20,070 --> 01:40:17,360
know this or that it's

3214
01:40:20,390 --> 01:40:20,080
my lab or that it's space brothers or

3215
01:40:22,310 --> 01:40:20,400
that

3216
01:40:23,430 --> 01:40:22,320
they came and met with eisenhower and

3217
01:40:24,870 --> 01:40:23,440
they gave him a choice do you want to be

3218
01:40:28,310 --> 01:40:24,880
the good areas

3219
01:40:30,870 --> 01:40:28,320
and he chose you can go to so again

3220
01:40:31,990 --> 01:40:30,880
where's terra firma you know and so to

3221
01:40:34,629 --> 01:40:32,000
me

3222
01:40:35,270 --> 01:40:34,639
john mack is is partly terra firma you

3223
01:40:37,990 --> 01:40:35,280
know

3224
01:40:39,270 --> 01:40:38,000
it's not like if and that was the

3225
01:40:40,229 --> 01:40:39,280
interesting conversation i had with

3226
01:40:42,790 --> 01:40:40,239
blumenthal right

3227
01:40:44,390 --> 01:40:42,800
so like if you want to step over john

3228
01:40:47,510 --> 01:40:44,400
mack's work

3229
01:40:50,550 --> 01:40:47,520
you can do that but then what you enter

3230
01:40:52,229 --> 01:40:50,560
into is that okay our reality that we're

3231
01:40:55,510 --> 01:40:52,239
talking to on this little zoom call

3232
01:40:56,870 --> 01:40:55,520
is a non-reality so we're talking from a

3233
01:41:00,310 --> 01:40:56,880
prejudicially

3234
01:41:01,510 --> 01:41:00,320
uh stupider non-reality contemplating

3235
01:41:03,590 --> 01:41:01,520
the greater reality

3236
01:41:05,430 --> 01:41:03,600
because there's no other way to process

3237
01:41:07,990 --> 01:41:05,440
what what john mack is saying

3238
01:41:10,470 --> 01:41:08,000
because john mack after a while he kind

3239
01:41:13,510 --> 01:41:10,480
of comes around to the idea of kind of a

3240
01:41:15,270 --> 01:41:13,520
jacques village kind of hey maybe i

3241
01:41:17,590 --> 01:41:15,280
don't see the full picture

3242
01:41:19,430 --> 01:41:17,600
yeah and you know the thing i always

3243
01:41:20,790 --> 01:41:19,440
bring up about jacques vallee is that

3244
01:41:22,629 --> 01:41:20,800
because i interviewed jacques villa you

3245
01:41:24,229 --> 01:41:22,639
know jacques pillay says those things

3246
01:41:25,750 --> 01:41:24,239
but they are misinterpreted by most

3247
01:41:26,470 --> 01:41:25,760
people and i actually asked him this in

3248
01:41:29,270 --> 01:41:26,480
his interview

3249
01:41:31,030 --> 01:41:29,280
it's not a it's not an either and it's a

3250
01:41:31,990 --> 01:41:31,040
both thing and it's a guy who still

3251
01:41:35,030 --> 01:41:32,000
walks around

3252
01:41:37,430 --> 01:41:35,040
with a piece of slag in his pocket from

3253
01:41:39,350 --> 01:41:37,440
on quote-unquote alien spaceship that

3254
01:41:40,950 --> 01:41:39,360
when you look at it under

3255
01:41:43,750 --> 01:41:40,960
an electron microscope has

3256
01:41:46,790 --> 01:41:43,760
characteristics that we are unable to

3257
01:41:49,669 --> 01:41:46,800
create or engineer on this planet so

3258
01:41:50,390 --> 01:41:49,679
and if you go you know not to kind of do

3259
01:41:53,590 --> 01:41:50,400
the whole

3260
01:41:53,990 --> 01:41:53,600
but the other person i interviewed that

3261
01:41:55,990 --> 01:41:54,000
i think

3262
01:41:57,510 --> 01:41:56,000
i always think is like a forgotten piece

3263
01:41:59,910 --> 01:41:57,520
of this is like

3264
01:42:01,510 --> 01:41:59,920
this woman from montana state university

3265
01:42:03,669 --> 01:42:01,520
anthropologist her name is dr

3266
01:42:05,750 --> 01:42:03,679
artie six color clark native american

3267
01:42:06,870 --> 01:42:05,760
scholar but she went interviewed all

3268
01:42:08,790 --> 01:42:06,880
these

3269
01:42:09,910 --> 01:42:08,800
native americans and then she started

3270
01:42:11,750 --> 01:42:09,920
interviewing

3271
01:42:13,189 --> 01:42:11,760
indigenous people around the world and

3272
01:42:15,030 --> 01:42:13,199
they're like yeah star

3273
01:42:16,709 --> 01:42:15,040
people they come from the stars we've

3274
01:42:18,709 --> 01:42:16,719
known it all along here's what it is

3275
01:42:20,709 --> 01:42:18,719
and they even have contemporary

3276
01:42:21,830 --> 01:42:20,719
encounters with them but they also have

3277
01:42:23,510 --> 01:42:21,840
all these

3278
01:42:25,270 --> 01:42:23,520
ones from their tradition and stuff like

3279
01:42:29,109 --> 01:42:25,280
that so again to step

3280
01:42:31,510 --> 01:42:29,119
over that data and say oh well you know

3281
01:42:33,669 --> 01:42:31,520
we now understand or we now are

3282
01:42:36,310 --> 01:42:33,679
contemplating this extended realm where

3283
01:42:37,910 --> 01:42:36,320
aquino is doing dissociative identity

3284
01:42:40,629 --> 01:42:37,920
disorder and connecting with

3285
01:42:41,430 --> 01:42:40,639
evil spirits so wrap it up there it is

3286
01:42:43,910 --> 01:42:41,440
there's e.t

3287
01:42:45,510 --> 01:42:43,920
it's like [\h__\h] no don't look that way to

3288
01:42:48,870 --> 01:42:45,520
me it looks like e.t

3289
01:42:51,109 --> 01:42:48,880
is definitely in play and all the rest

3290
01:42:53,189 --> 01:42:51,119
of that stuff is in play and if anything

3291
01:42:55,189 --> 01:42:53,199
we're just sitting over here in our tiny

3292
01:42:56,950 --> 01:42:55,199
little confine of this

3293
01:42:58,790 --> 01:42:56,960
brain that's processing this

3294
01:43:01,590 --> 01:42:58,800
consciousness that's flowing through us

3295
01:43:03,750 --> 01:43:01,600
and we're looking through the pinhole so

3296
01:43:05,669 --> 01:43:03,760
you're saying basically that you

3297
01:43:07,750 --> 01:43:05,679
do think that they come from that

3298
01:43:10,550 --> 01:43:07,760
there's aliens from another planet

3299
01:43:10,950 --> 01:43:10,560
uh in outer space i mean best evidence

3300
01:43:14,310 --> 01:43:10,960
best

3301
01:43:15,350 --> 01:43:14,320
evidence is going to be cross culture

3302
01:43:19,910 --> 01:43:15,360
cross time

3303
01:43:21,830 --> 01:43:19,920
it's all over the place and they they

3304
01:43:23,270 --> 01:43:21,840
go to the dogen they don't even in in

3305
01:43:24,870 --> 01:43:23,280
africa an ancient tribe

3306
01:43:26,709 --> 01:43:24,880
they don't even have a language they say

3307
01:43:28,149 --> 01:43:26,719
yeah there it is pilates and by the way

3308
01:43:29,510 --> 01:43:28,159
you know for last hundreds of years

3309
01:43:29,990 --> 01:43:29,520
they've told us there's a twin star

3310
01:43:32,229 --> 01:43:30,000
there

3311
01:43:33,109 --> 01:43:32,239
and not until you know 20 years later

3312
01:43:35,430 --> 01:43:33,119
when we have the micro

3313
01:43:36,950 --> 01:43:35,440
when we have the telescope capability

3314
01:43:37,350 --> 01:43:36,960
after the first anthropologist gets

3315
01:43:42,629 --> 01:43:37,360
there

3316
01:43:44,870 --> 01:43:42,639
confirming yeah it's necessarily the

3317
01:43:46,310 --> 01:43:44,880
discount the importance of space or the

3318
01:43:48,629 --> 01:43:46,320
you know the importance of the sky or

3319
01:43:50,950 --> 01:43:48,639
the stars astronomical or astrological

3320
01:43:52,070 --> 01:43:50,960
phenomena and the connection to this i

3321
01:43:53,189 --> 01:43:52,080
think that definitely obviously

3322
01:43:54,870 --> 01:43:53,199
yes you're absolutely right that

3323
01:43:56,149 --> 01:43:54,880
culturally speaking there's an

3324
01:43:57,910 --> 01:43:56,159
association between

3325
01:43:59,830 --> 01:43:57,920
you know these beings in the sky so i

3326
01:44:01,750 --> 01:43:59,840
think that that is definitely sailing

3327
01:44:03,510 --> 01:44:01,760
and you know i think that space

3328
01:44:04,870 --> 01:44:03,520
traditionally speaking is imagined you

3329
01:44:05,910 --> 01:44:04,880
know as

3330
01:44:07,510 --> 01:44:05,920
you know we're talking about another

3331
01:44:08,709 --> 01:44:07,520
realm you know like you said both and

3332
01:44:09,430 --> 01:44:08,719
you know space traditionally isn't

3333
01:44:12,470 --> 01:44:09,440
imagined

3334
01:44:14,550 --> 01:44:12,480
as like an extension of our same

3335
01:44:15,990 --> 01:44:14,560
plane you know there's an atmosphere and

3336
01:44:17,189 --> 01:44:16,000
then you go out into outer space

3337
01:44:18,629 --> 01:44:17,199
we're talking about traditional

3338
01:44:19,990 --> 01:44:18,639
imaginative usually it is like a

3339
01:44:21,350 --> 01:44:20,000
different ontological domain

3340
01:44:23,510 --> 01:44:21,360
like the firmament you know where the

3341
01:44:25,270 --> 01:44:23,520
stars are that's not like just an

3342
01:44:27,189 --> 01:44:25,280
extension of the same sort of physical

3343
01:44:28,870 --> 01:44:27,199
rules or the same physical framework

3344
01:44:31,030 --> 01:44:28,880
that we have on earth you know by just

3345
01:44:32,470 --> 01:44:31,040
by virtue of like an atmospheric screen

3346
01:44:33,750 --> 01:44:32,480
you know it's a different like in the

3347
01:44:35,669 --> 01:44:33,760
same way you know that's where like

3348
01:44:39,109 --> 01:44:35,679
angels and things like that live

3349
01:44:40,870 --> 01:44:39,119
you know so it yeah i think definitely

3350
01:44:42,149 --> 01:44:40,880
yeah exactly powers at the powers of the

3351
01:44:43,030 --> 01:44:42,159
air right yeah so i think that there

3352
01:44:45,270 --> 01:44:43,040
definitely is

3353
01:44:46,870 --> 01:44:45,280
some some significance to that but you

3354
01:44:48,870 --> 01:44:46,880
know i definitely don't i don't think

3355
01:44:51,030 --> 01:44:48,880
it from from what i gather i don't think

3356
01:44:51,990 --> 01:44:51,040
that it means you you would either and

3357
01:44:53,510 --> 01:44:52,000
saying both and

3358
01:44:55,510 --> 01:44:53,520
i definitely think that there's more

3359
01:44:58,390 --> 01:44:55,520
than just that there's you know

3360
01:45:00,149 --> 01:44:58,400
a normal race of intelligent beings that

3361
01:45:01,830 --> 01:45:00,159
you know came here in spaceships and

3362
01:45:02,709 --> 01:45:01,840
there's something yeah there's something

3363
01:45:05,510 --> 01:45:02,719
going on with

3364
01:45:06,790 --> 01:45:05,520
other ontological domains of reality you

3365
01:45:07,270 --> 01:45:06,800
know there's a connection between this

3366
01:45:09,350 --> 01:45:07,280
and

3367
01:45:10,870 --> 01:45:09,360
you know the idea of the gin for

3368
01:45:13,270 --> 01:45:10,880
instance uh between you know

3369
01:45:14,470 --> 01:45:13,280
shadow people or other types of other

3370
01:45:16,790 --> 01:45:14,480
categories of the spirit

3371
01:45:18,310 --> 01:45:16,800
spirit being also the technology which

3372
01:45:20,149 --> 01:45:18,320
now i'm seeing that

3373
01:45:21,990 --> 01:45:20,159
the navy the pentagon just keeps

3374
01:45:23,030 --> 01:45:22,000
releasing these videos of course they

3375
01:45:25,350 --> 01:45:23,040
could always be

3376
01:45:26,470 --> 01:45:25,360
cgi'd but i'm willing to accept that the

3377
01:45:28,790 --> 01:45:26,480
videos are

3378
01:45:30,310 --> 01:45:28,800
showing something like we can finally

3379
01:45:32,390 --> 01:45:30,320
put that to rest that

3380
01:45:33,590 --> 01:45:32,400
ufos are not just definitely a ufo

3381
01:45:38,390 --> 01:45:33,600
phenomenon

3382
01:45:40,229 --> 01:45:38,400
definitely like there's not it's not

3383
01:45:42,229 --> 01:45:40,239
just like people like you know farmers

3384
01:45:43,990 --> 01:45:42,239
like out in the sticks like lying or

3385
01:45:45,990 --> 01:45:44,000
something or people just seeing

3386
01:45:47,750 --> 01:45:46,000
like balloons and being confused like

3387
01:45:48,629 --> 01:45:47,760
they're both genuine things and that's

3388
01:45:50,310 --> 01:45:48,639
always really been

3389
01:45:52,149 --> 01:45:50,320
acknowledged i think they're these are

3390
01:45:53,510 --> 01:45:52,159
real phenomena the question is

3391
01:45:55,430 --> 01:45:53,520
you know what's the explanation behind

3392
01:45:57,189 --> 01:45:55,440
them i mean to your earlier your much

3393
01:45:57,990 --> 01:45:57,199
earlier point the very top of the show i

3394
01:46:01,350 --> 01:45:58,000
think that i

3395
01:46:02,950 --> 01:46:01,360
am skeptical of the hard push toward the

3396
01:46:05,270 --> 01:46:02,960
kind of materialistic et

3397
01:46:06,229 --> 01:46:05,280
phenomenon from two angles you know one

3398
01:46:09,590 --> 01:46:06,239
being that

3399
01:46:11,030 --> 01:46:09,600
they're a military threat i think that

3400
01:46:14,310 --> 01:46:11,040
that's like a huge reduction

3401
01:46:16,070 --> 01:46:14,320
of the actual situation as you know

3402
01:46:18,390 --> 01:46:16,080
encountered by people who have

3403
01:46:20,070 --> 01:46:18,400
dealt with it extensively the pincer

3404
01:46:21,830 --> 01:46:20,080
movement as you guys called it i thought

3405
01:46:23,189 --> 01:46:21,840
was beautiful

3406
01:46:24,870 --> 01:46:23,199
yeah well yeah i mean yeah between

3407
01:46:26,550 --> 01:46:24,880
stephen greer and the to the stars

3408
01:46:27,990 --> 01:46:26,560
academy there is a weird kind of

3409
01:46:30,070 --> 01:46:28,000
dialectic going on

3410
01:46:31,750 --> 01:46:30,080
where they're kind of beefing it almost

3411
01:46:32,870 --> 01:46:31,760
feels in a kind of like a pro wrestling

3412
01:46:35,669 --> 01:46:32,880
kind of way

3413
01:46:36,470 --> 01:46:35,679
of these are the two poles of the ufo

3414
01:46:38,709 --> 01:46:36,480
disclosure

3415
01:46:40,310 --> 01:46:38,719
community and they're both saying the

3416
01:46:42,229 --> 01:46:40,320
other one is psyopping you

3417
01:46:43,430 --> 01:46:42,239
but they're probably both psyopping you

3418
01:46:44,470 --> 01:46:43,440
to a certain degree i mean when you just

3419
01:46:46,550 --> 01:46:44,480
look at who

3420
01:46:48,470 --> 01:46:46,560
these people are associated with like

3421
01:46:49,830 --> 01:46:48,480
you know people from the melon family

3422
01:46:52,550 --> 01:46:49,840
and pentagon people

3423
01:46:53,669 --> 01:46:52,560
and john podesta give me a break tell

3424
01:46:55,109 --> 01:46:53,679
that story real quick

3425
01:46:57,030 --> 01:46:55,119
in the way that you guys do it so you

3426
01:46:59,350 --> 01:46:57,040
got stephen grier up there saying

3427
01:47:00,310 --> 01:46:59,360
hey they're all good and the only bad

3428
01:47:02,310 --> 01:47:00,320
ones are the

3429
01:47:03,590 --> 01:47:02,320
evil my labs stay away from them and

3430
01:47:04,870 --> 01:47:03,600
then i love the way

3431
01:47:07,270 --> 01:47:04,880
so many people don't see this and you

3432
01:47:09,910 --> 01:47:07,280
guys were like totally on it you know

3433
01:47:10,950 --> 01:47:09,920
he's up there with uh with dodie he's up

3434
01:47:16,310 --> 01:47:10,960
there with dodie

3435
01:47:18,470 --> 01:47:16,320
how can we even how can we even process

3436
01:47:21,590 --> 01:47:18,480
that as anything other it's an in you

3437
01:47:23,189 --> 01:47:21,600
it's almost like in your face psyopping

3438
01:47:24,790 --> 01:47:23,199
you know mind controlling you

3439
01:47:26,470 --> 01:47:24,800
and and he comes out of transcendental

3440
01:47:29,109 --> 01:47:26,480
meditation yeah

3441
01:47:30,629 --> 01:47:29,119
well that's what he pushes as a way to

3442
01:47:32,070 --> 01:47:30,639
engage with these things so that's yeah

3443
01:47:33,030 --> 01:47:32,080
that's another interesting component of

3444
01:47:34,709 --> 01:47:33,040
it because

3445
01:47:36,629 --> 01:47:34,719
he does have this kind of yeah maybe

3446
01:47:38,709 --> 01:47:36,639
they're in a higher spiritual plane

3447
01:47:40,550 --> 01:47:38,719
but he still like deals in the same

3448
01:47:41,990 --> 01:47:40,560
tropes of like the saucer man you know

3449
01:47:43,990 --> 01:47:42,000
they come you know maybe they're

3450
01:47:45,270 --> 01:47:44,000
they're light beings in some way but

3451
01:47:46,629 --> 01:47:45,280
they you know

3452
01:47:47,910 --> 01:47:46,639
they've been they're in contact with the

3453
01:47:50,470 --> 01:47:47,920
military you know they come from other

3454
01:47:52,790 --> 01:47:50,480
planets etc you know and i think that

3455
01:47:54,310 --> 01:47:52,800
there definitely is i do not credit or

3456
01:47:55,590 --> 01:47:54,320
trust like the people who are trotted

3457
01:47:57,910 --> 01:47:55,600
out you know on tucker

3458
01:47:58,790 --> 01:47:57,920
or you know in the media to be the

3459
01:48:00,390 --> 01:47:58,800
ambassadors

3460
01:48:01,270 --> 01:48:00,400
for how this phenomenon's gonna be

3461
01:48:02,310 --> 01:48:01,280
interpreted because yeah you're

3462
01:48:03,990 --> 01:48:02,320
absolutely right that

3463
01:48:05,830 --> 01:48:04,000
those who have followed this for a while

3464
01:48:07,830 --> 01:48:05,840
like it is quite transparent to them

3465
01:48:09,189 --> 01:48:07,840
but i think that there's a huge increase

3466
01:48:10,550 --> 01:48:09,199
in awareness of this like in a general

3467
01:48:12,149 --> 01:48:10,560
population where there's a huge push

3468
01:48:13,669 --> 01:48:12,159
like the new york times etc

3469
01:48:15,270 --> 01:48:13,679
like their people are becoming more

3470
01:48:15,830 --> 01:48:15,280
aware and like they're just believing

3471
01:48:17,430 --> 01:48:15,840
what

3472
01:48:19,189 --> 01:48:17,440
these ambassadors of the subject are

3473
01:48:21,189 --> 01:48:19,199
saying and i do not trust

3474
01:48:22,629 --> 01:48:21,199
like you know either narrative and i

3475
01:48:23,590 --> 01:48:22,639
think that yeah it is a pincer move

3476
01:48:24,629 --> 01:48:23,600
where they're meant to be like in

3477
01:48:27,030 --> 01:48:24,639
dialectic

3478
01:48:28,149 --> 01:48:27,040
and by the appearance of conflict it's

3479
01:48:30,070 --> 01:48:28,159
to exclude

3480
01:48:31,830 --> 01:48:30,080
like all the things that are important

3481
01:48:33,350 --> 01:48:31,840
to consider about this like everything

3482
01:48:35,030 --> 01:48:33,360
that they agree on

3483
01:48:36,629 --> 01:48:35,040
is like the area where you need to be

3484
01:48:38,390 --> 01:48:36,639
worried like you know the fight they're

3485
01:48:39,109 --> 01:48:38,400
having is trivial like their area of

3486
01:48:40,550 --> 01:48:39,119
agreement

3487
01:48:42,709 --> 01:48:40,560
that's like where the psyop i think

3488
01:48:44,149 --> 01:48:42,719
comes in it's back to michael aquino

3489
01:48:44,550 --> 01:48:44,159
right i mean as you guys are saying it's

3490
01:48:46,470 --> 01:48:44,560
like

3491
01:48:48,550 --> 01:48:46,480
hey he was into uh he was a space

3492
01:48:49,990 --> 01:48:48,560
intelligence officer in the early 90s at

3493
01:48:52,229 --> 01:48:50,000
the end of his career

3494
01:48:53,510 --> 01:48:52,239
and on certain interviews he would talk

3495
01:48:56,149 --> 01:48:53,520
very coyly

3496
01:48:57,350 --> 01:48:56,159
about having been to area 51 and that

3497
01:48:59,990 --> 01:48:57,360
maybe he had seen

3498
01:49:00,950 --> 01:49:00,000
certain technologies that may or may not

3499
01:49:03,030 --> 01:49:00,960
have had e.t

3500
01:49:05,109 --> 01:49:03,040
origins but remember he said something

3501
01:49:06,470 --> 01:49:05,119
weird about like a gyroscope device that

3502
01:49:09,030 --> 01:49:06,480
he once held in his hand

3503
01:49:09,990 --> 01:49:09,040
that i guess i think he was implying it

3504
01:49:11,830 --> 01:49:10,000
mimicked the kind of

3505
01:49:13,910 --> 01:49:11,840
properties of how a ufo would move like

3506
01:49:14,550 --> 01:49:13,920
a flying i think that deep down you know

3507
01:49:17,510 --> 01:49:14,560
maybe not

3508
01:49:18,629 --> 01:49:17,520
he didn't publicize it as heavily uh as

3509
01:49:19,510 --> 01:49:18,639
maybe some other people do but i think

3510
01:49:22,149 --> 01:49:19,520
that he really did

3511
01:49:23,830 --> 01:49:22,159
also have kind of a both and approach to

3512
01:49:25,350 --> 01:49:23,840
this phenomenon in a similar jack-valley

3513
01:49:27,430 --> 01:49:25,360
way like he thought that

3514
01:49:29,589 --> 01:49:27,440
he did believe like in kind of ancient

3515
01:49:30,790 --> 01:49:29,599
aliens type stuff i think that he had an

3516
01:49:32,709 --> 01:49:30,800
idea of

3517
01:49:34,229 --> 01:49:32,719
set and maybe some of these like other

3518
01:49:35,669 --> 01:49:34,239
lovecraftian entities that he would

3519
01:49:37,350 --> 01:49:35,679
mention as being you know out there in

3520
01:49:39,109 --> 01:49:37,360
some way a connection between

3521
01:49:40,709 --> 01:49:39,119
you know the whole binary of the

3522
01:49:43,270 --> 01:49:40,719
material and spiritual is

3523
01:49:44,149 --> 01:49:43,280
a bit vain you know or at least a bit

3524
01:49:45,990 --> 01:49:44,159
porous

3525
01:49:47,350 --> 01:49:46,000
where you know i think that it's not

3526
01:49:49,669 --> 01:49:47,360
just like oh you know

3527
01:49:50,709 --> 01:49:49,679
they're evil spirits but they're they're

3528
01:49:52,070 --> 01:49:50,719
you know they're separate from our

3529
01:49:52,629 --> 01:49:52,080
reality no they're like a part of it the

3530
01:49:53,830 --> 01:49:52,639
whole

3531
01:49:55,830 --> 01:49:53,840
thing of like supernatural and

3532
01:49:56,629 --> 01:49:55,840
paranormal that is in a way like if not

3533
01:49:58,950 --> 01:49:56,639
a psyop

3534
01:50:01,030 --> 01:49:58,960
then like a naive distinction because

3535
01:50:04,310 --> 01:50:01,040
like these things are part of nature

3536
01:50:04,870 --> 01:50:04,320
let me throw a tiny little log on the

3537
01:50:06,950 --> 01:50:04,880
fire

3538
01:50:08,790 --> 01:50:06,960
that you guys can spin off of and it

3539
01:50:10,070 --> 01:50:08,800
totally complements what you're already

3540
01:50:12,950 --> 01:50:10,080
talking about but you know i was

3541
01:50:14,070 --> 01:50:12,960
mentioning ralph blumenthal the guy

3542
01:50:16,149 --> 01:50:14,080
wrote the john mack

3543
01:50:17,350 --> 01:50:16,159
biography and you know the other thing

3544
01:50:20,550 --> 01:50:17,360
he's famous for

3545
01:50:21,430 --> 01:50:20,560
and i talked about this is he along with

3546
01:50:23,189 --> 01:50:21,440
leslie kane

3547
01:50:25,669 --> 01:50:23,199
who is awesome and i've interviewed her

3548
01:50:27,189 --> 01:50:25,679
a couple times on the show

3549
01:50:29,270 --> 01:50:27,199
they're the ones who broke the new york

3550
01:50:32,470 --> 01:50:29,280
times december 2017

3551
01:50:34,870 --> 01:50:32,480
a-tip you know the flying

3552
01:50:35,589 --> 01:50:34,880
they're the people so and i always was

3553
01:50:37,910 --> 01:50:35,599
like

3554
01:50:39,669 --> 01:50:37,920
to me it was always such an obvious

3555
01:50:42,310 --> 01:50:39,679
political messiah feels like come

3556
01:50:42,870 --> 01:50:42,320
on you're kidding me and the tell is

3557
01:50:44,149 --> 01:50:42,880
that

3558
01:50:47,109 --> 01:50:44,159
then they get you you know you push them

3559
01:50:50,149 --> 01:50:47,119
and they go well it wasn't classified

3560
01:50:55,750 --> 01:50:50,159
okay this is this is the biggest

3561
01:50:59,270 --> 01:50:57,589
yeah for 50 60 years we've been

3562
01:51:00,870 --> 01:50:59,280
threatening how many people we know

3563
01:51:02,629 --> 01:51:00,880
beyond threatened how many people have

3564
01:51:03,750 --> 01:51:02,639
probably been killed over this families

3565
01:51:05,350 --> 01:51:03,760
have been threatened you know if you

3566
01:51:06,550 --> 01:51:05,360
ever let any of this information out

3567
01:51:09,189 --> 01:51:06,560
oh it was just laying there was

3568
01:51:10,390 --> 01:51:09,199
unclassified but i genuinely think that

3569
01:51:13,589 --> 01:51:10,400
blumenthal

3570
01:51:14,629 --> 01:51:13,599
and leslie kane are are sincere you know

3571
01:51:17,430 --> 01:51:14,639
when you talk to him

3572
01:51:18,870 --> 01:51:17,440
because in in a way i love that and it's

3573
01:51:21,109 --> 01:51:18,880
a kind of a topic i don't know if a lot

3574
01:51:24,149 --> 01:51:21,119
of time to get into but it's like

3575
01:51:25,589 --> 01:51:24,159
understanding the complexity of all our

3576
01:51:27,510 --> 01:51:25,599
lives and how you can be

3577
01:51:30,550 --> 01:51:27,520
all these things and how we can all be

3578
01:51:31,990 --> 01:51:30,560
duped you know and how we can all be

3579
01:51:33,589 --> 01:51:32,000
how we can all be duped and we think

3580
01:51:33,990 --> 01:51:33,599
we're getting a real story and they're

3581
01:51:35,910 --> 01:51:34,000
making

3582
01:51:38,790 --> 01:51:35,920
us fight for it you know and it's like

3583
01:51:40,550 --> 01:51:38,800
oh gosh we got it oh we got it we got it

3584
01:51:42,790 --> 01:51:40,560
and all the way all along they were

3585
01:51:44,550 --> 01:51:42,800
playing you you know in that video

3586
01:51:46,070 --> 01:51:44,560
and i interviewed the guy who was on the

3587
01:51:48,149 --> 01:51:46,080
boat very very key

3588
01:51:49,350 --> 01:51:48,159
a witness and all his experiences with

3589
01:51:51,589 --> 01:51:49,360
it he said

3590
01:51:53,669 --> 01:51:51,599
that's the real video it was in my

3591
01:51:55,510 --> 01:51:53,679
secret inbox the next day

3592
01:51:57,750 --> 01:51:55,520
but it also showed up on the internet

3593
01:51:58,629 --> 01:51:57,760
seven years ago somebody released it and

3594
01:52:01,669 --> 01:51:58,639
got out

3595
01:52:02,550 --> 01:52:01,679
so i the video is is no doubt in my

3596
01:52:06,870 --> 01:52:02,560
opinion

3597
01:52:08,950 --> 01:52:06,880
real but the fact that these guys got

3598
01:52:10,470 --> 01:52:08,960
duped by the new york times into

3599
01:52:13,270 --> 01:52:10,480
thinking that this was something

3600
01:52:13,990 --> 01:52:13,280
other than the other arm of the pincer

3601
01:52:17,669 --> 01:52:14,000
movement

3602
01:52:19,270 --> 01:52:17,679
you know and and yeah and then you look

3603
01:52:20,790 --> 01:52:19,280
at the people like i've mentioned like

3604
01:52:22,709 --> 01:52:20,800
lawrence rockefeller spent

3605
01:52:24,950 --> 01:52:22,719
millions of dollars i guess he founded

3606
01:52:27,830 --> 01:52:24,960
he he financed mufon

3607
01:52:29,589 --> 01:52:27,840
the let me see fufor like all of these

3608
01:52:30,070 --> 01:52:29,599
different groups for many many years and

3609
01:52:31,430 --> 01:52:30,080
then

3610
01:52:33,669 --> 01:52:31,440
when you think about somebody like john

3611
01:52:36,550 --> 01:52:33,679
podesta who's such an operator

3612
01:52:37,270 --> 01:52:36,560
who is kind of aligned it almost it may

3613
01:52:39,510 --> 01:52:37,280
even map

3614
01:52:40,629 --> 01:52:39,520
onto the kind of republican democrat

3615
01:52:43,030 --> 01:52:40,639
kind of dialectic

3616
01:52:44,470 --> 01:52:43,040
in the sense of like you got harry reid

3617
01:52:46,229 --> 01:52:44,480
john podesta

3618
01:52:48,310 --> 01:52:46,239
tom delong like a kind of hollywood

3619
01:52:50,550 --> 01:52:48,320
entertainment guy on one and then like

3620
01:52:52,229 --> 01:52:50,560
the melons on one side though honestly

3621
01:52:53,350 --> 01:52:52,239
they're they're both right and left wing

3622
01:52:55,350 --> 01:52:53,360
depending on the day and then on the

3623
01:52:56,790 --> 01:52:55,360
other side you have tucker who

3624
01:52:58,790 --> 01:52:56,800
interestingly i don't know if this is

3625
01:53:00,310 --> 01:52:58,800
totally irrelevant it's interesting that

3626
01:53:02,390 --> 01:53:00,320
he's such a deadhead

3627
01:53:04,229 --> 01:53:02,400
and is also yeah he's like ufo reports

3628
01:53:06,550 --> 01:53:04,239
and is also probably cia

3629
01:53:07,990 --> 01:53:06,560
his dad i believe ran either voice of

3630
01:53:10,149 --> 01:53:08,000
america the broadcasting board of

3631
01:53:12,550 --> 01:53:10,159
governors in the 1980s at like

3632
01:53:13,669 --> 01:53:12,560
the absolute climax of the cold war and

3633
01:53:15,270 --> 01:53:13,679
the collapse of

3634
01:53:16,950 --> 01:53:15,280
you know communism around the world like

3635
01:53:17,510 --> 01:53:16,960
that was his dad his dad runs around

3636
01:53:19,830 --> 01:53:17,520
with like

3637
01:53:21,109 --> 01:53:19,840
sketchy commando military contractors in

3638
01:53:23,990 --> 01:53:21,119
the middle east and stuff

3639
01:53:24,629 --> 01:53:24,000
tucker i believe sorry i believe tucker

3640
01:53:26,310 --> 01:53:24,639
didn't he say

3641
01:53:28,070 --> 01:53:26,320
is any one of these many people in the

3642
01:53:30,070 --> 01:53:28,080
media who said they like tried to apply

3643
01:53:33,030 --> 01:53:30,080
for the caa but got rejected

3644
01:53:33,669 --> 01:53:33,040
i don't believe that honestly and it's

3645
01:53:35,669 --> 01:53:33,679
interesting

3646
01:53:37,589 --> 01:53:35,679
he's kind of more you know we've talked

3647
01:53:38,390 --> 01:53:37,599
about the yankee and cowboy dialectic a

3648
01:53:40,629 --> 01:53:38,400
lot lately

3649
01:53:42,950 --> 01:53:40,639
tucker kind of comes from i i guess kind

3650
01:53:44,550 --> 01:53:42,960
of the despite his you know his love for

3651
01:53:45,430 --> 01:53:44,560
bow ties in the past kind of a more

3652
01:53:47,189 --> 01:53:45,440
cowboy

3653
01:53:48,550 --> 01:53:47,199
aligned sort of thing so maybe he's

3654
01:53:51,589 --> 01:53:48,560
going to be having

3655
01:53:53,030 --> 01:53:51,599
more of the steven greer type

3656
01:53:55,750 --> 01:53:53,040
i though i don't know maybe it doesn't

3657
01:53:57,430 --> 01:53:55,760
matter neatly boosted the elizondo

3658
01:53:58,950 --> 01:53:57,440
type of like he boosted the phenomenon

3659
01:54:00,149 --> 01:53:58,960
on the show i remember very clearly that

3660
01:54:01,750 --> 01:54:00,159
when he had

3661
01:54:03,750 --> 01:54:01,760
uh i think it was alexander that he had

3662
01:54:06,709 --> 01:54:03,760
in his show but whoever he had on

3663
01:54:08,550 --> 01:54:06,719
he did he did yeah he said something

3664
01:54:10,390 --> 01:54:08,560
that was like if it weren't an election

3665
01:54:11,830 --> 01:54:10,400
year you know or an election month we

3666
01:54:13,430 --> 01:54:11,840
would do a whole week on this

3667
01:54:15,109 --> 01:54:13,440
it's that important which is such an

3668
01:54:16,790 --> 01:54:15,119
amazing you know especially for like

3669
01:54:18,390 --> 01:54:16,800
an audience like tucker's which is

3670
01:54:19,830 --> 01:54:18,400
generally very uncritical

3671
01:54:21,589 --> 01:54:19,840
and you know just hanging on his every

3672
01:54:21,990 --> 01:54:21,599
word for like all their views about the

3673
01:54:23,990 --> 01:54:22,000
world

3674
01:54:25,589 --> 01:54:24,000
like that's quite a profound statement

3675
01:54:27,270 --> 01:54:25,599
like yeah i use hyperbole all the time

3676
01:54:27,910 --> 01:54:27,280
but like that's gonna activate like

3677
01:54:30,470 --> 01:54:27,920
people's

3678
01:54:31,589 --> 01:54:30,480
sensibilities about this but yes it's

3679
01:54:33,350 --> 01:54:31,599
it's very bizarre and something that you

3680
01:54:35,589 --> 01:54:33,360
know the whole thing i feel like

3681
01:54:36,790 --> 01:54:35,599
the most famous or one of the most

3682
01:54:39,510 --> 01:54:36,800
famous things

3683
01:54:40,950 --> 01:54:39,520
or ufos to come out of this is tic tac

3684
01:54:42,629 --> 01:54:40,960
you know the idea of the tic tac

3685
01:54:44,229 --> 01:54:42,639
something that is like okay so what is

3686
01:54:45,030 --> 01:54:44,239
the space narrative you know there

3687
01:54:46,470 --> 01:54:45,040
definitely has to be some more

3688
01:54:49,189 --> 01:54:46,480
complexity to it because

3689
01:54:51,030 --> 01:54:49,199
did the aliens just invent the tic tac

3690
01:54:52,149 --> 01:54:51,040
like what happened to the old saucers

3691
01:54:53,669 --> 01:54:52,159
you know they stopped

3692
01:54:55,030 --> 01:54:53,679
using those they have now the tic tacs

3693
01:54:56,229 --> 01:54:55,040
are like and how convenient is it that

3694
01:54:59,109 --> 01:54:56,239
this now looks like

3695
01:55:00,310 --> 01:54:59,119
the case for your like apple ear pods or

3696
01:55:01,750 --> 01:55:00,320
whatever you know that they're flying

3697
01:55:02,310 --> 01:55:01,760
around in like it looks like something

3698
01:55:04,070 --> 01:55:02,320
that

3699
01:55:06,229 --> 01:55:04,080
you know apple would design if they were

3700
01:55:07,910 --> 01:55:06,239
going to design like a ufo like why

3701
01:55:09,430 --> 01:55:07,920
why is this the case you know it's it's

3702
01:55:10,709 --> 01:55:09,440
very interesting you know yeah i mean i

3703
01:55:12,229 --> 01:55:10,719
jack valet was involved in that

3704
01:55:13,109 --> 01:55:12,239
phenomenon documentary and i definitely

3705
01:55:14,550 --> 01:55:13,119
understand the

3706
01:55:15,750 --> 01:55:14,560
critique of jack valet that you hear

3707
01:55:17,109 --> 01:55:15,760
from some quarters and he is like a

3708
01:55:17,750 --> 01:55:17,119
spooked up person and he has these

3709
01:55:19,510 --> 01:55:17,760
things but

3710
01:55:21,510 --> 01:55:19,520
i don't understand i don't understand

3711
01:55:23,589 --> 01:55:21,520
the haters i don't understand the haters

3712
01:55:27,350 --> 01:55:23,599
on valet i really don't i think he's

3713
01:55:29,750 --> 01:55:27,360
i think he's as legit as as i can find

3714
01:55:31,830 --> 01:55:29,760
and i think he has that that french vibe

3715
01:55:33,109 --> 01:55:31,840
that adds to his legitimacy to a certain

3716
01:55:34,310 --> 01:55:33,119
extent because i really don't give a

3717
01:55:36,149 --> 01:55:34,320
[\h__\h] about what you

3718
01:55:37,350 --> 01:55:36,159
americans think i'm going to go back to

3719
01:55:39,830 --> 01:55:37,360
the sanity

3720
01:55:41,030 --> 01:55:39,840
sanity of france but he's also you know

3721
01:55:42,550 --> 01:55:41,040
he's plugged into

3722
01:55:44,310 --> 01:55:42,560
i think he's legitimate venture

3723
01:55:45,350 --> 01:55:44,320
capitalist not like a phony venture

3724
01:55:47,270 --> 01:55:45,360
capitalist that gets

3725
01:55:49,510 --> 01:55:47,280
put on boards he really has some

3726
01:55:50,950 --> 01:55:49,520
knowledge he's a computer scientist you

3727
01:55:54,229 --> 01:55:50,960
know and i'm a computer scientist

3728
01:55:55,669 --> 01:55:54,239
so i i respect that he i don't know i

3729
01:55:57,350 --> 01:55:55,679
don't understand the haters there

3730
01:55:59,589 --> 01:55:57,360
and you know the story the story that he

3731
01:56:01,030 --> 01:55:59,599
told me on the show that i thought was

3732
01:56:03,030 --> 01:56:01,040
really great and it's confirming of

3733
01:56:06,870 --> 01:56:03,040
something else that you guys can

3734
01:56:07,990 --> 01:56:06,880
clue into he said he was there at sri

3735
01:56:09,750 --> 01:56:08,000
when they were doing the project

3736
01:56:11,109 --> 01:56:09,760
stargate stuff at the beginning you know

3737
01:56:11,510 --> 01:56:11,119
before they get into the remote viewing

3738
01:56:13,669 --> 01:56:11,520
or

3739
01:56:15,669 --> 01:56:13,679
i guess at the same time but they had

3740
01:56:17,350 --> 01:56:15,679
uri geller famously there you know the

3741
01:56:19,030 --> 01:56:17,360
nine guy from the nine who

3742
01:56:20,709 --> 01:56:19,040
andre which we could go off but we're

3743
01:56:23,270 --> 01:56:20,719
not going to go there but anyways

3744
01:56:25,510 --> 01:56:23,280
he's there and he had missed the

3745
01:56:27,830 --> 01:56:25,520
experiment the testing that he done

3746
01:56:29,270 --> 01:56:27,840
so he says yuri says here we'll do it

3747
01:56:31,830 --> 01:56:29,280
we'll do it right here

3748
01:56:32,390 --> 01:56:31,840
and so this is the words of jacques

3749
01:56:35,510 --> 01:56:32,400
vallee

3750
01:56:38,870 --> 01:56:35,520
he says i did a protocol

3751
01:56:39,430 --> 01:56:38,880
where i came up with this image in my

3752
01:56:41,589 --> 01:56:39,440
head

3753
01:56:43,030 --> 01:56:41,599
and then jacques filet or i wrote it

3754
01:56:45,750 --> 01:56:43,040
down or whatever it was

3755
01:56:46,950 --> 01:56:45,760
but it was really quite amazing and i'm

3756
01:56:47,990 --> 01:56:46,960
botching it because i can't remember it

3757
01:56:51,030 --> 01:56:48,000
off the top of my head

3758
01:56:52,229 --> 01:56:51,040
but it was actually had a language part

3759
01:56:54,870 --> 01:56:52,239
of it that combined

3760
01:56:56,950 --> 01:56:54,880
two images in a way that you wouldn't

3761
01:56:59,830 --> 01:56:56,960
normally do it was just kind of a

3762
01:57:01,030 --> 01:56:59,840
quirky thing that valet had had done

3763
01:57:03,030 --> 01:57:01,040
almost inadvertently

3764
01:57:04,790 --> 01:57:03,040
that would have probably not flown in

3765
01:57:05,830 --> 01:57:04,800
the protocol of the experiment but made

3766
01:57:09,510 --> 01:57:05,840
it more difficult

3767
01:57:12,629 --> 01:57:09,520
but geller was able to totally you know

3768
01:57:15,030 --> 01:57:12,639
get it and say exac read his mind

3769
01:57:16,790 --> 01:57:15,040
essentially and he was also able to you

3770
01:57:18,470 --> 01:57:16,800
know bend spoons

3771
01:57:20,629 --> 01:57:18,480
right in front of him and spoons that

3772
01:57:22,390 --> 01:57:20,639
were at the table in the cafeteria

3773
01:57:24,229 --> 01:57:22,400
and he was able to stop a watch and all

3774
01:57:27,109 --> 01:57:24,239
that stuff that sounds

3775
01:57:28,790 --> 01:57:27,119
really really hokey and really really

3776
01:57:31,030 --> 01:57:28,800
suspicious

3777
01:57:32,550 --> 01:57:31,040
i mean he doesn't have a reason to lie

3778
01:57:32,950 --> 01:57:32,560
on that and tell those stories and he

3779
01:57:34,629 --> 01:57:32,960
says

3780
01:57:35,669 --> 01:57:34,639
he's there yeah we know i just tend to

3781
01:57:36,870 --> 01:57:35,679
hedge like when we're talking about

3782
01:57:38,790 --> 01:57:36,880
these things but really what i was

3783
01:57:41,109 --> 01:57:38,800
my larger point was that i really admire

3784
01:57:43,109 --> 01:57:41,119
his passport to magonia and i i admire

3785
01:57:44,470 --> 01:57:43,119
the take that he and john keel have on

3786
01:57:45,750 --> 01:57:44,480
this phenomenon where you know

3787
01:57:47,589 --> 01:57:45,760
you can see the for instance in the

3788
01:57:48,709 --> 01:57:47,599
airship rumors you know in the 19th

3789
01:57:50,070 --> 01:57:48,719
century united states

3790
01:57:51,430 --> 01:57:50,080
around like the you know mysterious

3791
01:57:53,189 --> 01:57:51,440
inventor who built this airship that was

3792
01:57:55,430 --> 01:57:53,199
cited by so many people or even

3793
01:57:57,270 --> 01:57:55,440
the medieval accounts of like a big hook

3794
01:57:57,669 --> 01:57:57,280
coming out of some airborne craft and

3795
01:58:00,790 --> 01:57:57,679
like

3796
01:58:03,350 --> 01:58:00,800
transformations in

3797
01:58:05,430 --> 01:58:03,360
the way these craft are seen based on

3798
01:58:07,270 --> 01:58:05,440
you know what people

3799
01:58:08,950 --> 01:58:07,280
imagine about them or had their

3800
01:58:09,589 --> 01:58:08,960
expectations that they have and all the

3801
01:58:11,750 --> 01:58:09,599
different

3802
01:58:12,870 --> 01:58:11,760
weird absurdities or contradictions

3803
01:58:13,669 --> 01:58:12,880
around the phenomenon you know i think

3804
01:58:15,270 --> 01:58:13,679
that's a very

3805
01:58:16,629 --> 01:58:15,280
sailing and important point like when

3806
01:58:17,270 --> 01:58:16,639
talking about this stuff you know i

3807
01:58:20,229 --> 01:58:17,280
think that

3808
01:58:21,750 --> 01:58:20,239
something that the stephen greer and the

3809
01:58:22,470 --> 01:58:21,760
stars academy approaches both have in

3810
01:58:24,310 --> 01:58:22,480
common

3811
01:58:25,830 --> 01:58:24,320
is that they're very reductive they're

3812
01:58:26,629 --> 01:58:25,840
very narrow in their approach you know

3813
01:58:28,229 --> 01:58:26,639
they want us to

3814
01:58:30,070 --> 01:58:28,239
you know they do want to have a point

3815
01:58:31,750 --> 01:58:30,080
nailing it down you know and

3816
01:58:33,030 --> 01:58:31,760
for things to be like oh you know the

3817
01:58:34,310 --> 01:58:33,040
all the aliens look like this you know

3818
01:58:34,950 --> 01:58:34,320
they these are the craft that they fly

3819
01:58:37,270 --> 01:58:34,960
et cetera

3820
01:58:39,109 --> 01:58:37,280
yeah and it's just like exactly yeah

3821
01:58:42,229 --> 01:58:39,119
yeah they want to bottle it all up

3822
01:58:43,589 --> 01:58:42,239
yeah yeah no i think i

3823
01:58:46,149 --> 01:58:43,599
i think it's the i think it's the

3824
01:58:49,430 --> 01:58:46,159
closest even though

3825
01:58:51,910 --> 01:58:49,440
i can't say a 100 would trust jack valet

3826
01:58:54,149 --> 01:58:51,920
but that's more has to do with the

3827
01:58:57,270 --> 01:58:54,159
people he was associated with

3828
01:58:59,990 --> 01:58:57,280
from put off to targ to who was it kit

3829
01:59:02,149 --> 01:59:00,000
green the cia analyst to ira einhorn and

3830
01:59:04,229 --> 01:59:02,159
somebody else who got the god phone call

3831
01:59:05,430 --> 01:59:04,239
you know yeah weird case there edgar

3832
01:59:08,070 --> 01:59:05,440
mitchell who

3833
01:59:09,910 --> 01:59:08,080
i think founded uh the institute for new

3834
01:59:11,430 --> 01:59:09,920
what's that what's the dirt on edgar

3835
01:59:13,830 --> 01:59:11,440
mitchell i wasn't aware

3836
01:59:16,310 --> 01:59:13,840
was he a guy edgar mitchell wasn't but

3837
01:59:19,109 --> 01:59:16,320
he he got very into parapsychology after

3838
01:59:20,390 --> 01:59:19,119
he had some kind of mystical experience

3839
01:59:23,910 --> 01:59:20,400
i believe coming back

3840
01:59:25,189 --> 01:59:23,920
from the moon and he i believe yeah he

3841
01:59:28,470 --> 01:59:25,199
co-founded

3842
01:59:28,950 --> 01:59:28,480
the institute for noetic sciences he was

3843
01:59:30,229 --> 01:59:28,960
also

3844
01:59:32,470 --> 01:59:30,239
i actually didn't know this he was he

3845
01:59:34,790 --> 01:59:32,480
was a member of demolay international

3846
01:59:35,669 --> 01:59:34,800
massan international masonic fraternity

3847
01:59:38,310 --> 01:59:35,679
and was active

3848
01:59:38,950 --> 01:59:38,320
in the boy scouts as a teenager and

3849
01:59:41,430 --> 01:59:38,960
received a

3850
01:59:43,510 --> 01:59:41,440
private pilot license at 16 which means

3851
01:59:43,830 --> 01:59:43,520
he might have been in civil air patrol

3852
01:59:45,830 --> 01:59:43,840
no

3853
01:59:47,589 --> 01:59:45,840
don't go there don't go there worried

3854
01:59:49,910 --> 01:59:47,599
two hours i wanted to go no

3855
01:59:50,870 --> 01:59:49,920
i wanted to go lee harvey lee harvey

3856
01:59:53,669 --> 01:59:50,880
oswald

3857
01:59:54,070 --> 01:59:53,679
i wanted to go roswell new mexico also

3858
01:59:57,030 --> 01:59:54,080
and

3859
01:59:58,709 --> 01:59:57,040
oh yeah yeah yeah so i mean but yeah the

3860
02:00:02,550 --> 01:59:58,719
institute for noetic sciences

3861
02:00:04,629 --> 02:00:02,560
was i want to say that wow actually i

3862
02:00:05,910 --> 02:00:04,639
there's so much stuff with him in 1976

3863
02:00:06,550 --> 02:00:05,920
he attempted to secure additional

3864
02:00:08,310 --> 02:00:06,560
funding

3865
02:00:10,390 --> 02:00:08,320
for srs remote viewing research in a

3866
02:00:11,430 --> 02:00:10,400
private meeting with director of central

3867
02:00:14,470 --> 02:00:11,440
intelligence george

3868
02:00:17,589 --> 02:00:14,480
h.w bush so i guess they knew

3869
02:00:19,350 --> 02:00:17,599
they had the good relationship but where

3870
02:00:20,950 --> 02:00:19,360
i i can't remember if instituted noetic

3871
02:00:22,470 --> 02:00:20,960
scientists well okay so they

3872
02:00:24,390 --> 02:00:22,480
they were one of the people that were

3873
02:00:26,149 --> 02:00:24,400
involved with the sri

3874
02:00:27,830 --> 02:00:26,159
report that we just did an episode on

3875
02:00:29,669 --> 02:00:27,840
called changing images of man

3876
02:00:31,189 --> 02:00:29,679
yeah that's something yeah i wanted to

3877
02:00:34,629 --> 02:00:31,199
bring up this whole time because

3878
02:00:36,629 --> 02:00:34,639
yeah yeah to that type of you know 60s

3879
02:00:37,910 --> 02:00:36,639
stuff with it like you know when you

3880
02:00:39,510 --> 02:00:37,920
mention like they're engaged with remote

3881
02:00:41,910 --> 02:00:39,520
viewing and all these things like an

3882
02:00:42,709 --> 02:00:41,920
sri in particular like yeah it's uh very

3883
02:00:44,790 --> 02:00:42,719
very relevant

3884
02:00:45,830 --> 02:00:44,800
i think yeah yeah they mention all kinds

3885
02:00:48,709 --> 02:00:45,840
of things from

3886
02:00:49,750 --> 02:00:48,719
esp to remote viewing to hypnosis and

3887
02:00:52,790 --> 02:00:49,760
things like that

3888
02:00:54,310 --> 02:00:52,800
and in that and it feels very prophetic

3889
02:00:55,750 --> 02:00:54,320
in that basically

3890
02:00:58,310 --> 02:00:55,760
they're kind of talking about social

3891
02:00:59,990 --> 02:00:58,320
engineering using a kind of new ag

3892
02:01:01,910 --> 02:01:00,000
paradigm that was very big in

3893
02:01:03,430 --> 02:01:01,920
stanford and palo alto and kind of

3894
02:01:05,510 --> 02:01:03,440
california in general

3895
02:01:07,109 --> 02:01:05,520
among this kind of academic and

3896
02:01:09,510 --> 02:01:07,119
scientific intelligentsia

3897
02:01:11,109 --> 02:01:09,520
at the time and a lot of it does seem to

3898
02:01:13,669 --> 02:01:11,119
have come curiously kind of

3899
02:01:14,709 --> 02:01:13,679
true often kind of via the internet

3900
02:01:16,950 --> 02:01:14,719
which is also

3901
02:01:18,550 --> 02:01:16,960
what sri was building at the exact same

3902
02:01:20,310 --> 02:01:18,560
time and that's i don't know if you have

3903
02:01:23,030 --> 02:01:20,320
any uh particular take on

3904
02:01:24,390 --> 02:01:23,040
that the kind of duality of because i do

3905
02:01:25,990 --> 02:01:24,400
think it's very interesting

3906
02:01:28,229 --> 02:01:26,000
that they were doing all these

3907
02:01:31,030 --> 02:01:28,239
experiments in esp remote viewing

3908
02:01:31,350 --> 02:01:31,040
telekinesis whatnot and kind of like you

3909
02:01:35,350 --> 02:01:31,360
know

3910
02:01:37,430 --> 02:01:35,360
brain to brain if you will

3911
02:01:39,669 --> 02:01:37,440
but then they're simultaneously building

3912
02:01:41,030 --> 02:01:39,679
the infrastructure and the technology

3913
02:01:43,510 --> 02:01:41,040
and even like the you know the

3914
02:01:45,270 --> 02:01:43,520
conceptual framework for what would be

3915
02:01:47,189 --> 02:01:45,280
like computer technology and the

3916
02:01:49,350 --> 02:01:47,199
internet and in a way if you look at

3917
02:01:51,030 --> 02:01:49,360
like satellite gps technology our

3918
02:01:54,310 --> 02:01:51,040
smartphones all these things

3919
02:01:55,910 --> 02:01:54,320
are these not kind of like substitute

3920
02:01:58,709 --> 02:01:55,920
prosthetic like

3921
02:01:59,350 --> 02:01:58,719
cyborg devices that are meant to do the

3922
02:02:01,109 --> 02:01:59,360
things

3923
02:02:02,950 --> 02:02:01,119
that were being covered in these remote

3924
02:02:05,510 --> 02:02:02,960
viewing and parapsychology

3925
02:02:06,790 --> 02:02:05,520
experiments and if so i know there

3926
02:02:07,750 --> 02:02:06,800
there's a take that i'm familiar with

3927
02:02:09,990 --> 02:02:07,760
that i'm not sure

3928
02:02:11,510 --> 02:02:10,000
that i am fully on board with because i

3929
02:02:13,270 --> 02:02:11,520
think there's there's some kind of there

3930
02:02:15,430 --> 02:02:13,280
there with the parapsychology stuff

3931
02:02:17,270 --> 02:02:15,440
but to some extent was some of that

3932
02:02:20,070 --> 02:02:17,280
stuff a smoke screen

3933
02:02:21,750 --> 02:02:20,080
perhaps or certain aspects of it for the

3934
02:02:23,589 --> 02:02:21,760
actual building of the internet

3935
02:02:25,350 --> 02:02:23,599
because okay just for example remote

3936
02:02:27,350 --> 02:02:25,360
viewing they were using that in the

3937
02:02:30,310 --> 02:02:27,360
1980s people like ingo swan right

3938
02:02:31,030 --> 02:02:30,320
to go spy on say a soviet nuclear

3939
02:02:34,310 --> 02:02:31,040
facility

3940
02:02:35,830 --> 02:02:34,320
right and you know they they would use

3941
02:02:38,470 --> 02:02:35,840
it for espionage purposes

3942
02:02:39,030 --> 02:02:38,480
but then there are other things that

3943
02:02:41,189 --> 02:02:39,040
could do

3944
02:02:42,070 --> 02:02:41,199
the exact same thing at least to my

3945
02:02:45,109 --> 02:02:42,080
knowledge

3946
02:02:45,510 --> 02:02:45,119
when you were talking about like the i

3947
02:02:46,950 --> 02:02:45,520
don't know

3948
02:02:49,030 --> 02:02:46,960
the types of remote viewing they would

3949
02:02:49,830 --> 02:02:49,040
at least be doing in these military

3950
02:02:51,189 --> 02:02:49,840
applications

3951
02:02:52,709 --> 02:02:51,199
maybe there was a story about they

3952
02:02:54,229 --> 02:02:52,719
walked into like bridge and you have

3953
02:02:56,229 --> 02:02:54,239
office and the kremlin ones

3954
02:02:58,070 --> 02:02:56,239
that was one of the yeah one of the

3955
02:03:00,229 --> 02:02:58,080
soviet psychic discoveries book that we

3956
02:03:01,030 --> 02:03:00,239
read that was one i forgot the name of

3957
02:03:05,910 --> 02:03:01,040
the

3958
02:03:08,790 --> 02:03:05,920
great sort of magician and illusionist

3959
02:03:10,950 --> 02:03:08,800
yeah well one thing that was kind of

3960
02:03:12,390 --> 02:03:10,960
significant is like once they had

3961
02:03:14,229 --> 02:03:12,400
the kind of i think what was it called

3962
02:03:15,830 --> 02:03:14,239
echelon like the secret spy

3963
02:03:17,350 --> 02:03:15,840
satellite network that was really up and

3964
02:03:19,510 --> 02:03:17,360
running by the 80s

3965
02:03:20,629 --> 02:03:19,520
they were able to monitor soviet

3966
02:03:22,790 --> 02:03:20,639
economic activity

3967
02:03:24,390 --> 02:03:22,800
in real time in a way that they never

3968
02:03:26,390 --> 02:03:24,400
were able to do before

3969
02:03:28,229 --> 02:03:26,400
and because of this so for example like

3970
02:03:29,830 --> 02:03:28,239
take grain for example

3971
02:03:31,270 --> 02:03:29,840
if you could have satellites flying over

3972
02:03:34,229 --> 02:03:31,280
there 24 7

3973
02:03:35,189 --> 02:03:34,239
and you could predict the size of the

3974
02:03:37,990 --> 02:03:35,199
grain harvest

3975
02:03:38,629 --> 02:03:38,000
or you know where how fast it moved to

3976
02:03:40,790 --> 02:03:38,639
market

3977
02:03:43,030 --> 02:03:40,800
the transportation lines all that kind

3978
02:03:43,669 --> 02:03:43,040
of stuff that you were kind of boxed out

3979
02:03:44,790 --> 02:03:43,679
on before

3980
02:03:46,550 --> 02:03:44,800
like it was really hard to get

3981
02:03:47,910 --> 02:03:46,560
intelligence on that if you could get

3982
02:03:49,750 --> 02:03:47,920
enough detail

3983
02:03:51,430 --> 02:03:49,760
then you could start manipulating global

3984
02:03:53,270 --> 02:03:51,440
commodities markets

3985
02:03:55,030 --> 02:03:53,280
which they did you know under the

3986
02:03:57,030 --> 02:03:55,040
leadership of people like bill casey the

3987
02:03:58,950 --> 02:03:57,040
cia director as part of this vaster

3988
02:04:01,990 --> 02:03:58,960
strategy to economically

3989
02:04:04,069 --> 02:04:02,000
basically sabotage the eastern bloc and

3990
02:04:05,430 --> 02:04:04,079
basically throw it into crisis by

3991
02:04:07,109 --> 02:04:05,440
manipulating everything from like the

3992
02:04:09,589 --> 02:04:07,119
global oil prices to

3993
02:04:10,470 --> 02:04:09,599
like the price of grain and all kinds of

3994
02:04:13,270 --> 02:04:10,480
other things

3995
02:04:14,629 --> 02:04:13,280
so in a way the that satellite

3996
02:04:16,709 --> 02:04:14,639
technology

3997
02:04:18,229 --> 02:04:16,719
would be an incredibly valuable weapon

3998
02:04:20,790 --> 02:04:18,239
to disrupt their economy

3999
02:04:22,229 --> 02:04:20,800
now if they knew that we had those

4000
02:04:23,030 --> 02:04:22,239
satellites i mean i don't know if they

4001
02:04:25,669 --> 02:04:23,040
could have you know

4002
02:04:27,030 --> 02:04:25,679
done anything about it but if they knew

4003
02:04:28,390 --> 02:04:27,040
that we had those satellites you know

4004
02:04:29,270 --> 02:04:28,400
maybe they could you know plan

4005
02:04:31,430 --> 02:04:29,280
accordingly

4006
02:04:32,709 --> 02:04:31,440
and try to counteract that but if all

4007
02:04:34,470 --> 02:04:32,719
they hear is that

4008
02:04:35,910 --> 02:04:34,480
we have a bunch of psychic super spies

4009
02:04:37,189 --> 02:04:35,920
that are remote viewing on them

4010
02:04:39,030 --> 02:04:37,199
which is what they were hearing because

4011
02:04:39,750 --> 02:04:39,040
the esselyn had the soviet american

4012
02:04:41,589 --> 02:04:39,760
friendship

4013
02:04:43,030 --> 02:04:41,599
organization oh my god sending

4014
02:04:45,270 --> 02:04:43,040
scientists back there's too much there's

4015
02:04:48,229 --> 02:04:45,280
too many threads here but you do have to

4016
02:04:50,310 --> 02:04:48,239
before you leave the gorby yelsin

4017
02:04:53,830 --> 02:04:50,320
dropping acid thing

4018
02:04:54,790 --> 02:04:53,840
is so freaking because it's another one

4019
02:04:56,790 --> 02:04:54,800
of those where

4020
02:04:57,910 --> 02:04:56,800
now i don't know how i feel about that

4021
02:05:01,189 --> 02:04:57,920
now i feel like

4022
02:05:02,629 --> 02:05:01,199
damn way to go guys you know i mean

4023
02:05:04,229 --> 02:05:02,639
tell that tell that story real quick

4024
02:05:07,910 --> 02:05:04,239
well

4025
02:05:10,390 --> 02:05:07,920
we don't know that for sure

4026
02:05:12,069 --> 02:05:10,400
but we do know that it's almost certain

4027
02:05:13,669 --> 02:05:12,079
to me it's almost certain that it's some

4028
02:05:14,550 --> 02:05:13,679
kind of drug i don't know if it was i

4029
02:05:16,709 --> 02:05:14,560
think

4030
02:05:18,149 --> 02:05:16,719
at least to yeltsin at least because

4031
02:05:20,870 --> 02:05:18,159
yeltsin came over here

4032
02:05:21,270 --> 02:05:20,880
in the kind of mid to late 1980s when he

4033
02:05:22,790 --> 02:05:21,280
was still

4034
02:05:24,550 --> 02:05:22,800
you know a politician a soviet

4035
02:05:26,870 --> 02:05:24,560
politician and

4036
02:05:28,709 --> 02:05:26,880
he's you know that he went he came over

4037
02:05:31,270 --> 02:05:28,719
here on esslen sponsored

4038
02:05:32,950 --> 02:05:31,280
tour of america and you know he's

4039
02:05:34,149 --> 02:05:32,960
mentioned a few things of it over the

4040
02:05:36,550 --> 02:05:34,159
years that you can find

4041
02:05:38,790 --> 02:05:36,560
some quotes from him and apparently this

4042
02:05:39,990 --> 02:05:38,800
is where he had his ecstatic conversion

4043
02:05:42,550 --> 02:05:40,000
to capitalism

4044
02:05:43,750 --> 02:05:42,560
was in the houston supermarket on this

4045
02:05:45,990 --> 02:05:43,760
tour by esselyn

4046
02:05:46,950 --> 02:05:46,000
where he looked around at just all the

4047
02:05:51,350 --> 02:05:46,960
colorful

4048
02:05:53,750 --> 02:05:51,360
cereal boxes and twinkies yeah coca-cola

4049
02:05:54,870 --> 02:05:53,760
like burst into tears because it was so

4050
02:05:57,910 --> 02:05:54,880
glorious and like

4051
02:05:59,830 --> 02:05:57,920
his poor poor russian soviet people

4052
02:06:01,589 --> 02:05:59,840
just have to eat i don't know organic

4053
02:06:02,069 --> 02:06:01,599
food in jars that isn't poison that's so

4054
02:06:03,589 --> 02:06:02,079
terrible

4055
02:06:06,149 --> 02:06:03,599
right you know or blah blah blah bread

4056
02:06:08,149 --> 02:06:06,159
lines etc but you know that was like his

4057
02:06:10,069 --> 02:06:08,159
story of like oh i just realized the

4058
02:06:10,550 --> 02:06:10,079
abundance of american capitalism and

4059
02:06:12,629 --> 02:06:10,560
wanted

4060
02:06:13,669 --> 02:06:12,639
and then i was resolved to like go back

4061
02:06:16,629 --> 02:06:13,679
and like bring

4062
02:06:17,990 --> 02:06:16,639
capitalism back to russia you know and

4063
02:06:20,310 --> 02:06:18,000
so there's that but then you know he

4064
02:06:22,229 --> 02:06:20,320
went on a whole tour and i'm pretty sure

4065
02:06:24,069 --> 02:06:22,239
he stopped at esslen where they got

4066
02:06:24,870 --> 02:06:24,079
those those hot spring tubs and

4067
02:06:27,109 --> 02:06:24,880
everything

4068
02:06:28,709 --> 02:06:27,119
and it could have been at any point on

4069
02:06:30,310 --> 02:06:28,719
that trip where somebody

4070
02:06:32,310 --> 02:06:30,320
could have either slipped him something

4071
02:06:33,510 --> 02:06:32,320
or you know i mean that guy was already

4072
02:06:35,350 --> 02:06:33,520
a pretty big alcoholic

4073
02:06:37,109 --> 02:06:35,360
so you know just drop something in his

4074
02:06:39,109 --> 02:06:37,119
vodka and

4075
02:06:40,470 --> 02:06:39,119
boom there you go so i don't we don't

4076
02:06:44,390 --> 02:06:40,480
know what could have i mean he

4077
02:06:46,229 --> 02:06:44,400
like as a kind of bumbling alcoholic uh

4078
02:06:48,310 --> 02:06:46,239
piece of [\h__\h] that he was he was

4079
02:06:49,669 --> 02:06:48,320
probably relatively easy to manipulate

4080
02:06:51,189 --> 02:06:49,679
or something but at the same time i

4081
02:06:52,790 --> 02:06:51,199
think gorbachev actually is a more

4082
02:06:55,430 --> 02:06:52,800
interesting case because i feel like

4083
02:06:56,069 --> 02:06:55,440
up to a point gorbachev really believed

4084
02:06:59,589 --> 02:06:56,079
in

4085
02:07:00,390 --> 02:06:59,599
and perestroika like he did consider

4086
02:07:02,709 --> 02:07:00,400
himself

4087
02:07:03,510 --> 02:07:02,719
a good socialist or a communist but he

4088
02:07:05,990 --> 02:07:03,520
just he

4089
02:07:06,709 --> 02:07:06,000
felt that it had to be reformed and blah

4090
02:07:08,390 --> 02:07:06,719
blah blah

4091
02:07:10,790 --> 02:07:08,400
and you know he had to do a dangerous

4092
02:07:11,669 --> 02:07:10,800
turn basically and and also save the

4093
02:07:15,189 --> 02:07:11,679
world from

4094
02:07:17,270 --> 02:07:15,199
i think he was very mindful and afraid

4095
02:07:18,310 --> 02:07:17,280
of like nuclear annihilation and that

4096
02:07:20,069 --> 02:07:18,320
that stuff which again

4097
02:07:22,390 --> 02:07:20,079
was a psyop that was deliberately

4098
02:07:24,390 --> 02:07:22,400
fostered by the reagan administration

4099
02:07:25,990 --> 02:07:24,400
so i think there was a lot like you know

4100
02:07:29,350 --> 02:07:26,000
of factors like that

4101
02:07:31,109 --> 02:07:29,360
going in but you know i i would i

4102
02:07:33,109 --> 02:07:31,119
i'd like i have to dig deeper into that

4103
02:07:36,709 --> 02:07:33,119
yeah i don't know i don't know if gorby

4104
02:07:37,669 --> 02:07:36,719
himself visited sln but if he did like

4105
02:07:38,629 --> 02:07:37,679
well if you think about it like that's

4106
02:07:39,990 --> 02:07:38,639
what this human potential movement i

4107
02:07:41,189 --> 02:07:40,000
mean if you read changing images of man

4108
02:07:43,189 --> 02:07:41,199
like they're obsessed with it like they

4109
02:07:44,790 --> 02:07:43,199
really truly genuinely believe

4110
02:07:46,149 --> 02:07:44,800
and like especially like if you go back

4111
02:07:47,910 --> 02:07:46,159
and like make the mk ultra connection

4112
02:07:49,589 --> 02:07:47,920
like they believe in using psychedelics

4113
02:07:51,350 --> 02:07:49,599
to like change people's perceptions and

4114
02:07:53,669 --> 02:07:51,360
like save the world from

4115
02:07:54,870 --> 02:07:53,679
you know disaster like they definitely

4116
02:07:55,189 --> 02:07:54,880
yeah i agree with you definitely at

4117
02:07:57,510 --> 02:07:55,199
least

4118
02:07:58,870 --> 02:07:57,520
yeltsin like that rumor i i definitely

4119
02:08:00,790 --> 02:07:58,880
believe it like i don't know if gorby

4120
02:08:01,270 --> 02:08:00,800
like on the books went to sln but like

4121
02:08:05,030 --> 02:08:01,280
every

4122
02:08:07,030 --> 02:08:05,040
went there like for sure

4123
02:08:08,870 --> 02:08:07,040
yeah yeah because i mean what they did

4124
02:08:10,870 --> 02:08:08,880
is they they somehow like it ended up

4125
02:08:12,390 --> 02:08:10,880
being a kind of coup from the inside

4126
02:08:14,950 --> 02:08:12,400
where the ideological

4127
02:08:16,310 --> 02:08:14,960
they're like hot diplomacy at the time

4128
02:08:17,350 --> 02:08:16,320
they would always tout it yeah because

4129
02:08:18,870 --> 02:08:17,360
they yeah exactly

4130
02:08:20,629 --> 02:08:18,880
so you know it could have been they sat

4131
02:08:22,790 --> 02:08:20,639
in the hot tub and said look boris

4132
02:08:24,069 --> 02:08:22,800
we think that you are just the person

4133
02:08:26,390 --> 02:08:24,079
that russia needs but

4134
02:08:27,750 --> 02:08:26,400
you know you need to go back and do this

4135
02:08:29,830 --> 02:08:27,760
for us and we'll make you president of

4136
02:08:31,350 --> 02:08:29,840
russia or something like that i mean

4137
02:08:33,350 --> 02:08:31,360
i know somebody was slipping in the late

4138
02:08:33,910 --> 02:08:33,360
80s like maybe the kgb was slipping

4139
02:08:35,430 --> 02:08:33,920
because

4140
02:08:37,430 --> 02:08:35,440
you know how do you let this guy like

4141
02:08:38,229 --> 02:08:37,440
run around with eson in america and then

4142
02:08:40,149 --> 02:08:38,239
come back and

4143
02:08:41,669 --> 02:08:40,159
obviously be somebody who's trying to

4144
02:08:42,790 --> 02:08:41,679
undermine the socialist system that

4145
02:08:44,870 --> 02:08:42,800
people voted to

4146
02:08:46,709 --> 02:08:44,880
maintain and then does it anyways and

4147
02:08:47,910 --> 02:08:46,719
like nobody gets him like i don't know

4148
02:08:50,709 --> 02:08:47,920
it's it's very

4149
02:08:51,669 --> 02:08:50,719
kind of weird let me throw out a little

4150
02:08:53,189 --> 02:08:51,679
bit of time we have left

4151
02:08:54,950 --> 02:08:53,199
we keep going over but i can't stop

4152
02:08:56,550 --> 02:08:54,960
talking to you guys let me throw out one

4153
02:08:58,950 --> 02:08:56,560
other little trail that i've run across

4154
02:09:00,149 --> 02:08:58,960
that will directly maybe will you'll

4155
02:09:01,430 --> 02:09:00,159
you'll have to track it down and see

4156
02:09:04,310 --> 02:09:01,440
what you think

4157
02:09:05,430 --> 02:09:04,320
grant cameron is a ufo researcher and

4158
02:09:08,229 --> 02:09:05,440
he's from canada

4159
02:09:09,990 --> 02:09:08,239
and then the late great dan friendman is

4160
02:09:13,430 --> 02:09:10,000
another guy who was

4161
02:09:15,750 --> 02:09:13,440
kind of pretty pretty well

4162
02:09:16,629 --> 02:09:15,760
renowned as being a ufo investigator who

4163
02:09:18,470 --> 02:09:16,639
was legit

4164
02:09:19,750 --> 02:09:18,480
and you know did really good solid work

4165
02:09:23,750 --> 02:09:19,760
well between them

4166
02:09:24,149 --> 02:09:23,760
they managed to pry loose a foia request

4167
02:09:26,550 --> 02:09:24,159
and that's

4168
02:09:27,990 --> 02:09:26,560
something called something differently

4169
02:09:30,310 --> 02:09:28,000
called in canada

4170
02:09:33,270 --> 02:09:30,320
but the wilbert smith memo have you ever

4171
02:09:37,270 --> 02:09:33,280
heard of that yeah i think so

4172
02:09:40,310 --> 02:09:37,280
so wilbert smith was the guy in canada

4173
02:09:43,270 --> 02:09:40,320
at the strange desk in canada for

4174
02:09:45,510 --> 02:09:43,280
all aerial phenomena so he's getting

4175
02:09:45,990 --> 02:09:45,520
these ufo reports and finally he goes to

4176
02:09:48,149 --> 02:09:46,000
this

4177
02:09:49,189 --> 02:09:48,159
his bosses of bosses and says what are

4178
02:09:51,109 --> 02:09:49,199
we going to do and they go

4179
02:09:52,870 --> 02:09:51,119
right go down there go down to the

4180
02:09:54,790 --> 02:09:52,880
states see what's going on

4181
02:09:56,550 --> 02:09:54,800
he goes down he meets with vandevar bush

4182
02:09:58,629 --> 02:09:56,560
he meets with all the people

4183
02:10:00,069 --> 02:09:58,639
that that he says in this memo that he

4184
02:10:03,189 --> 02:10:00,079
writes when he comes back

4185
02:10:03,990 --> 02:10:03,199
that you would only we only know later

4186
02:10:06,390 --> 02:10:04,000
that these are

4187
02:10:07,910 --> 02:10:06,400
the people these are the majestic 12 if

4188
02:10:09,350 --> 02:10:07,920
you believe in majestic 12 and i think

4189
02:10:11,669 --> 02:10:09,360
there's a kernel of truth there

4190
02:10:13,910 --> 02:10:11,679
but this and again this memo is only

4191
02:10:15,510 --> 02:10:13,920
released accidentally

4192
02:10:17,270 --> 02:10:15,520
and it does look like it truly was

4193
02:10:17,589 --> 02:10:17,280
released accidentally unlike the phony

4194
02:10:21,189 --> 02:10:17,599
ones

4195
02:10:23,830 --> 02:10:21,199
accidentally

4196
02:10:24,950 --> 02:10:23,840
but the memo says this the memo says

4197
02:10:28,149 --> 02:10:24,960
this says

4198
02:10:31,030 --> 02:10:28,159
yes ufos are real it is the

4199
02:10:32,069 --> 02:10:31,040
at the highest level of security inside

4200
02:10:34,310 --> 02:10:32,079
the united states

4201
02:10:35,350 --> 02:10:34,320
higher than the hydrogen bomb but here's

4202
02:10:37,030 --> 02:10:35,360
the point

4203
02:10:38,790 --> 02:10:37,040
that cameron grant cameron you got to

4204
02:10:41,750 --> 02:10:38,800
give him credit for picking out

4205
02:10:42,709 --> 02:10:41,760
in the last line of it it says they

4206
02:10:45,950 --> 02:10:42,719
believe

4207
02:10:48,709 --> 02:10:45,960
that there is a mental phenomenon

4208
02:10:50,069 --> 02:10:48,719
associated with this and they are

4209
02:10:54,470 --> 02:10:50,079
exploring that

4210
02:10:57,430 --> 02:10:54,480
and what he connects that to is mk ultra

4211
02:10:59,589 --> 02:10:57,440
so and it doesn't like we're saying it's

4212
02:11:01,910 --> 02:10:59,599
not an either or thing it's not like

4213
02:11:03,030 --> 02:11:01,920
spy on the russians get the you know or

4214
02:11:06,229 --> 02:11:03,040
they're spying on us

4215
02:11:08,310 --> 02:11:06,239
do it before they do but it's also that

4216
02:11:10,950 --> 02:11:08,320
e.t is in this other realm where

4217
02:11:13,350 --> 02:11:10,960
telepathy is the mode of communication

4218
02:11:14,790 --> 02:11:13,360
we don't know [\h__\h] about telepathy we

4219
02:11:18,310 --> 02:11:14,800
better start

4220
02:11:19,750 --> 02:11:18,320
getting up to speed on some of these

4221
02:11:22,790 --> 02:11:19,760
extended mental realms

4222
02:11:23,189 --> 02:11:22,800
and it just yeah it looks worth pursuing

4223
02:11:25,589 --> 02:11:23,199
to me

4224
02:11:26,550 --> 02:11:25,599
well it does actually that reminds me

4225
02:11:28,629 --> 02:11:26,560
like my

4226
02:11:30,709 --> 02:11:28,639
i think the take i lean towards most

4227
02:11:33,270 --> 02:11:30,719
with that kind of stuff about

4228
02:11:35,189 --> 02:11:33,280
you know was remote viewing a cover for

4229
02:11:35,589 --> 02:11:35,199
like internet technology being created

4230
02:11:38,550 --> 02:11:35,599
is

4231
02:11:38,950 --> 02:11:38,560
i kind of lean more towards both and of

4232
02:11:40,069 --> 02:11:38,960
because

4233
02:11:41,350 --> 02:11:40,079
i don't know from everything i've read

4234
02:11:42,229 --> 02:11:41,360
about all this parapsychological

4235
02:11:44,390 --> 02:11:42,239
phenomenon

4236
02:11:45,270 --> 02:11:44,400
like two things jump out one is that

4237
02:11:47,990 --> 02:11:45,280
there seems to be

4238
02:11:49,990 --> 02:11:48,000
a demonstrable kind of effect like i it

4239
02:11:52,310 --> 02:11:50,000
does seem like there is something

4240
02:11:53,589 --> 02:11:52,320
like some people have a certain kind of

4241
02:11:55,990 --> 02:11:53,599
enhanced ability

4242
02:11:56,790 --> 02:11:56,000
at the same time it seems to be pretty

4243
02:11:59,189 --> 02:11:56,800
clear

4244
02:12:00,390 --> 02:11:59,199
that it's very difficult to like

4245
02:12:03,030 --> 02:12:00,400
programmatize

4246
02:12:04,629 --> 02:12:03,040
and system and standardize it and also

4247
02:12:07,910 --> 02:12:04,639
like mass produce it

4248
02:12:09,589 --> 02:12:07,920
in a way that you can privatize it and

4249
02:12:10,950 --> 02:12:09,599
integrate it into like our corporate

4250
02:12:12,550 --> 02:12:10,960
economy and

4251
02:12:14,709 --> 02:12:12,560
roll it out to everybody and use it to

4252
02:12:16,629 --> 02:12:14,719
control everybody because it's too

4253
02:12:17,830 --> 02:12:16,639
not well understood enough yet so

4254
02:12:19,350 --> 02:12:17,840
basically it's like they were kind of

4255
02:12:21,830 --> 02:12:19,360
pursuing these two tracks

4256
02:12:22,790 --> 02:12:21,840
and maybe they had to build the internet

4257
02:12:24,229 --> 02:12:22,800
because

4258
02:12:26,390 --> 02:12:24,239
it it's kind of like that thing with

4259
02:12:27,430 --> 02:12:26,400
tesla how tesla invented like wireless

4260
02:12:29,189 --> 02:12:27,440
energy and then

4261
02:12:30,790 --> 02:12:29,199
you know jp morgan was like well i can't

4262
02:12:31,830 --> 02:12:30,800
meet her for this like that sucks i'm

4263
02:12:33,189 --> 02:12:31,840
gonna go with edison

4264
02:12:34,629 --> 02:12:33,199
it's kind of like that it's like well

4265
02:12:36,069 --> 02:12:34,639
you couldn't fully control if we just

4266
02:12:36,709 --> 02:12:36,079
started opening like remote viewing

4267
02:12:38,069 --> 02:12:36,719
schools

4268
02:12:40,310 --> 02:12:38,079
and like teaching people how to

4269
02:12:41,350 --> 02:12:40,320
cultivate their psychic abilities or

4270
02:12:42,950 --> 02:12:41,360
something like that

4271
02:12:44,470 --> 02:12:42,960
well where's the money in controlling

4272
02:12:46,390 --> 02:12:44,480
that you know instead

4273
02:12:48,069 --> 02:12:46,400
let's put these satellites up and then

4274
02:12:49,669 --> 02:12:48,079
convince everybody to buy this phone

4275
02:12:52,069 --> 02:12:49,679
and get people in sweatshops to make the

4276
02:12:53,910 --> 02:12:52,079
phone and use child slaves in africa to

4277
02:12:54,629 --> 02:12:53,920
mine the minerals for it and then put it

4278
02:12:57,750 --> 02:12:54,639
all together

4279
02:12:59,350 --> 02:12:57,760
and then blast psyops at you 24 7 and

4280
02:13:01,589 --> 02:12:59,360
like you know basically create a little

4281
02:13:03,510 --> 02:13:01,599
cathexis device that addicts you

4282
02:13:04,790 --> 02:13:03,520
and then we can and then we can get our

4283
02:13:06,069 --> 02:13:04,800
closet them real good

4284
02:13:08,310 --> 02:13:06,079
and then you know they probably won't

4285
02:13:10,790 --> 02:13:08,320
even and then we can still pursue

4286
02:13:12,310 --> 02:13:10,800
our parapsychological stuff and and i'm

4287
02:13:14,229 --> 02:13:12,320
sure somebody is still

4288
02:13:15,669 --> 02:13:14,239
trying to figure out kind of how to

4289
02:13:18,550 --> 02:13:15,679
reliably do it

4290
02:13:20,390 --> 02:13:18,560
in a way where you know anybody with the

4291
02:13:22,709 --> 02:13:20,400
the money or the access

4292
02:13:24,310 --> 02:13:22,719
could you know pick up a skill or but

4293
02:13:26,069 --> 02:13:24,320
maybe not maybe it doesn't work that way

4294
02:13:27,189 --> 02:13:26,079
maybe some people have it some people

4295
02:13:29,350 --> 02:13:27,199
don't like we

4296
02:13:30,470 --> 02:13:29,360
we don't really know so yeah this has

4297
02:13:31,910 --> 02:13:30,480
always been a thing where

4298
02:13:33,910 --> 02:13:31,920
there's a certain sense of its

4299
02:13:36,149 --> 02:13:33,920
unreliability i think that you know the

4300
02:13:37,270 --> 02:13:36,159
to try to use i think that's spiritual

4301
02:13:37,750 --> 02:13:37,280
powers like in the way they've been

4302
02:13:39,430 --> 02:13:37,760
discussed

4303
02:13:41,189 --> 02:13:39,440
like traditionally you know yeah it's

4304
02:13:43,589 --> 02:13:41,199
very difficult to use these for

4305
02:13:44,790 --> 02:13:43,599
uh cynical or selfish motives but i do

4306
02:13:46,390 --> 02:13:44,800
think that you know not to go completely

4307
02:13:49,189 --> 02:13:46,400
down the both end rabbit hole but

4308
02:13:50,709 --> 02:13:49,199
part of what you're saying is i think or

4309
02:13:51,109 --> 02:13:50,719
uh to speak to what you're saying in

4310
02:13:53,350 --> 02:13:51,119
part

4311
02:13:54,310 --> 02:13:53,360
is that i think there isn't necessarily

4312
02:13:56,069 --> 02:13:54,320
a divide between these

4313
02:13:58,069 --> 02:13:56,079
things because like again as we all

4314
02:14:00,629 --> 02:13:58,079
talked about on the show some of

4315
02:14:02,870 --> 02:14:00,639
the like technologies like that we use

4316
02:14:04,069 --> 02:14:02,880
now like really have like an archaeology

4317
02:14:06,790 --> 02:14:04,079
or a history to them

4318
02:14:08,950 --> 02:14:06,800
that is connected to like these occult

4319
02:14:10,870 --> 02:14:08,960
practices like the scrying glass

4320
02:14:13,189 --> 02:14:10,880
you know the black the obsidian black

4321
02:14:15,589 --> 02:14:13,199
mirror and the black mirror of the

4322
02:14:16,950 --> 02:14:15,599
a computer screen you know i think you

4323
02:14:18,390 --> 02:14:16,960
know and people who

4324
02:14:20,790 --> 02:14:18,400
talk about psionics like they will

4325
02:14:24,069 --> 02:14:20,800
always talk about the interaction

4326
02:14:25,350 --> 02:14:24,079
or you know maybe the the discord or the

4327
02:14:27,189 --> 02:14:25,360
the tension between

4328
02:14:28,870 --> 02:14:27,199
the internet and you know of course

4329
02:14:30,069 --> 02:14:28,880
you're like 5g and stuff like that you

4330
02:14:32,790 --> 02:14:30,079
know so it's something that

4331
02:14:33,990 --> 02:14:32,800
is real in that sphere as well so i i

4332
02:14:35,270 --> 02:14:34,000
don't necessarily think yeah i

4333
02:14:36,390 --> 02:14:35,280
definitely think that there is something

4334
02:14:38,790 --> 02:14:36,400
to what you're saying where the

4335
02:14:39,990 --> 02:14:38,800
operational goals weren't mutable just

4336
02:14:41,910 --> 02:14:40,000
in that domain and the internet

4337
02:14:43,990 --> 02:14:41,920
developed to reach them but there really

4338
02:14:45,589 --> 02:14:44,000
is a lot of time a crossover between

4339
02:14:47,510 --> 02:14:45,599
those two areas of inquiry

4340
02:14:49,109 --> 02:14:47,520
you know and neuralink is the ultimate

4341
02:14:51,270 --> 02:14:49,119
example i guess of that yeah

4342
02:14:52,870 --> 02:14:51,280
and you know maybe that's the dream well

4343
02:14:53,990 --> 02:14:52,880
yeah ufo's actually a great example

4344
02:14:55,750 --> 02:14:54,000
because the two themes that you

4345
02:14:57,430 --> 02:14:55,760
see like yeah like like alex mentioned

4346
02:14:59,990 --> 02:14:57,440
the two themes are

4347
02:15:01,510 --> 02:15:00,000
the mk ultra sort of mental phenomena

4348
02:15:03,589 --> 02:15:01,520
connection and the other one is metals

4349
02:15:04,069 --> 02:15:03,599
and and geomagnetics or whatever you

4350
02:15:05,830 --> 02:15:04,079
know like

4351
02:15:07,270 --> 02:15:05,840
the mystery metals like those are the

4352
02:15:09,189 --> 02:15:07,280
two things that

4353
02:15:10,629 --> 02:15:09,199
always come up and are the the the

4354
02:15:12,229 --> 02:15:10,639
perennial obsessions

4355
02:15:13,830 --> 02:15:12,239
of this up to today but to the star

4356
02:15:14,629 --> 02:15:13,840
stuff of like the we have these

4357
02:15:16,629 --> 02:15:14,639
compounds

4358
02:15:17,830 --> 02:15:16,639
you know that will be of great use you

4359
02:15:20,310 --> 02:15:17,840
know or whatever like

4360
02:15:22,149 --> 02:15:20,320
in our partnership free energy yeah yeah

4361
02:15:23,510 --> 02:15:22,159
they sold it to the army or something

4362
02:15:25,189 --> 02:15:23,520
yeah exactly they made like a

4363
02:15:27,189 --> 02:15:25,199
partnership yeah they're like

4364
02:15:29,189 --> 02:15:27,199
yeah what like what are these medals

4365
02:15:32,149 --> 02:15:29,199
like tell me you know so

4366
02:15:33,109 --> 02:15:32,159
i don't know yeah yeah yeah well you

4367
02:15:35,510 --> 02:15:33,119
guys this has been

4368
02:15:36,870 --> 02:15:35,520
great and we just have to end it at some

4369
02:15:39,510 --> 02:15:36,880
point or we could go on

4370
02:15:40,950 --> 02:15:39,520
forever no you probably always encounter

4371
02:15:43,350 --> 02:15:40,960
yeah

4372
02:15:44,229 --> 02:15:43,360
well it's it's it's to our benefit

4373
02:15:46,790 --> 02:15:44,239
because

4374
02:15:47,830 --> 02:15:46,800
subliminal jihad is something that

4375
02:15:50,310 --> 02:15:47,840
everyone has

4376
02:15:51,189 --> 02:15:50,320
to check out and experience for

4377
02:15:53,109 --> 02:15:51,199
themselves

4378
02:15:55,109 --> 02:15:53,119
you guys have already kind of dropped a

4379
02:15:56,310 --> 02:15:55,119
couple little hints about some stuff

4380
02:15:58,229 --> 02:15:56,320
that's coming up

4381
02:15:59,990 --> 02:15:58,239
but maybe you want to do some more of

4382
02:16:03,510 --> 02:16:00,000
that and tell people

4383
02:16:05,589 --> 02:16:03,520
the best way to connect sure

4384
02:16:07,030 --> 02:16:05,599
well yeah you could find the easiest way

4385
02:16:10,229 --> 02:16:07,040
to find us is probably on

4386
02:16:12,390 --> 02:16:10,239
twitter at subliminal jihad and

4387
02:16:14,470 --> 02:16:12,400
you can find us individually that way

4388
02:16:17,589 --> 02:16:14,480
too you can find us on

4389
02:16:20,470 --> 02:16:17,599
soundcloud or spotify or apple podcast

4390
02:16:22,550 --> 02:16:20,480
and on patreon where yeah like we said

4391
02:16:24,790 --> 02:16:22,560
that kpfa episode will be out

4392
02:16:26,390 --> 02:16:24,800
later this week and you know we do what

4393
02:16:29,030 --> 02:16:26,400
we do

4394
02:16:30,950 --> 02:16:29,040
yeah yeah one topic one one premium yeah

4395
02:16:32,549 --> 02:16:30,960
we got we got dog man coming you know

4396
02:16:33,110 --> 02:16:32,559
maybe some people are attending to the

4397
02:16:37,990 --> 02:16:33,120
dog man

4398
02:16:40,150 --> 02:16:38,000
on that coming down kpfa it's good we

4399
02:16:42,389 --> 02:16:40,160
are changing images of man episode

4400
02:16:44,070 --> 02:16:42,399
uh and offerman on our show if you want

4401
02:16:45,270 --> 02:16:44,080
to oh yeah we have an operant interview

4402
02:16:47,429 --> 02:16:45,280
that should be out uh

4403
02:16:48,469 --> 02:16:47,439
in the next week or two that was really

4404
02:16:50,469 --> 02:16:48,479
great and

4405
02:16:52,870 --> 02:16:50,479
yeah we're probably gonna we might go

4406
02:16:56,150 --> 02:16:52,880
back to the i think the gifted children

4407
02:16:58,309 --> 02:16:56,160
kind of thing yeah i think we might

4408
02:16:59,750 --> 02:16:58,319
we just had an episode on patreon a kind

4409
02:17:01,509 --> 02:16:59,760
of q a on update

4410
02:17:03,429 --> 02:17:01,519
where we talked a lot about this like q

4411
02:17:05,429 --> 02:17:03,439
researcher dave troy

4412
02:17:06,629 --> 02:17:05,439
and if you want a spicy little nugget to

4413
02:17:09,349 --> 02:17:06,639
leave you with because this

4414
02:17:10,629 --> 02:17:09,359
this stitches uh everything together he

4415
02:17:14,070 --> 02:17:10,639
happened to mention

4416
02:17:16,389 --> 02:17:14,080
that his father went to colombia

4417
02:17:17,750 --> 02:17:16,399
and was selected as a part of a um

4418
02:17:20,950 --> 02:17:17,760
gifted child

4419
02:17:23,349 --> 02:17:20,960
program no and his mentor you know who

4420
02:17:26,389 --> 02:17:23,359
his mentor was

4421
02:17:31,270 --> 02:17:26,399
donald barr former attorney general

4422
02:17:34,629 --> 02:17:32,950
yes he was also a cia agent who

4423
02:17:35,669 --> 02:17:34,639
according to terry reid traffic cocaine

4424
02:17:38,070 --> 02:17:35,679
out of meena arkansas

4425
02:17:38,790 --> 02:17:38,080
he got jeffrey epstein yeah no he got

4426
02:17:40,709 --> 02:17:38,800
jeffrey

4427
02:17:43,349 --> 02:17:40,719
so okay that's the closest we've gotten

4428
02:17:46,549 --> 02:17:43,359
so far to proving that maybe

4429
02:17:48,230 --> 02:17:46,559
donald barr bill barr's dad was running

4430
02:17:49,750 --> 02:17:48,240
and he was he was running a program for

4431
02:17:51,589 --> 02:17:49,760
like gifted columbia

4432
02:17:52,950 --> 02:17:51,599
students in like physics and science and

4433
02:17:55,030 --> 02:17:52,960
stuff like that and that's where

4434
02:17:55,990 --> 02:17:55,040
this dude dave troy's dad he said he was

4435
02:17:57,589 --> 02:17:56,000
his mentor

4436
02:17:58,950 --> 02:17:57,599
you know and so that i mean he was a

4437
02:17:59,589 --> 02:17:58,960
little older at that point but the fact

4438
02:18:01,830 --> 02:17:59,599
that he was

4439
02:18:03,669 --> 02:18:01,840
the head of dalton school and then he

4440
02:18:05,030 --> 02:18:03,679
personally brought in jeffrey epstein a

4441
02:18:08,150 --> 02:18:05,040
college dropout

4442
02:18:10,389 --> 02:18:08,160
to teach these elite maybe gifted kids

4443
02:18:12,389 --> 02:18:10,399
kind of seems like maybe maybe jeffrey

4444
02:18:13,270 --> 02:18:12,399
epstein was a gifted child of donald

4445
02:18:15,349 --> 02:18:13,280
barr

4446
02:18:16,709 --> 02:18:15,359
and then you know we're we're right

4447
02:18:17,030 --> 02:18:16,719
there we're right there in the thick of

4448
02:18:20,309 --> 02:18:17,040
it

4449
02:18:22,150 --> 02:18:20,319
probably circle around to that

4450
02:18:23,429 --> 02:18:22,160
that kind of stuff pretty soon but you

4451
02:18:26,870 --> 02:18:23,439
know

4452
02:18:29,110 --> 02:18:26,880
it's a it's a crazy web but yeah anyways

4453
02:18:29,990 --> 02:18:29,120
stop yeah yeah we got some good stuff

4454
02:18:31,589 --> 02:18:30,000
coming up and

4455
02:18:33,990 --> 02:18:31,599
yeah no this has been really fun thanks

4456
02:18:35,349 --> 02:18:34,000
for having us on oh thank you khaled and

4457
02:18:37,910 --> 02:18:35,359
dimitri you guys have been

4458
02:18:39,910 --> 02:18:37,920
fantastic and we'll do it again sometime

4459
02:18:41,830 --> 02:18:39,920
yeah yeah i'd love to

4460
02:18:43,030 --> 02:18:41,840
thanks again to dimitri and khalid from

4461
02:18:45,589 --> 02:18:43,040
subliminal jihad

4462
02:18:47,349 --> 02:18:45,599
for joining me today on skeptico the one

4463
02:18:47,910 --> 02:18:47,359
question i would tee up from this

4464
02:18:51,110 --> 02:18:47,920
interview

4465
02:18:52,309 --> 02:18:51,120
is what do you make of colonel michael

4466
02:18:55,349 --> 02:18:52,319
aquino

4467
02:18:57,270 --> 02:18:55,359
be careful how you answer

4468
02:18:58,629 --> 02:18:57,280
because the rabbit hole on this one gets

4469
02:19:02,070 --> 02:18:58,639
very deep

4470
02:19:06,309 --> 02:19:02,080
very quick q anon spirituality

4471
02:19:07,910 --> 02:19:06,319
mk ultra the whole shebang let me know

4472
02:19:08,549 --> 02:19:07,920
your thoughts always love to hear from

4473
02:19:11,470 --> 02:19:08,559
you

4474
02:19:18,830 --> 02:19:11,480
until next time take care and bye for

4475
02:19:18,840 --> 02:19:24,490
now